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Forum » SpaceEngine » Feedback and Suggestions » Relativistic Effects Discussion
Relativistic Effects Discussion
werdnaforeverDate: Monday, 30.07.2012, 10:35 | Message # 1
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I like the way light is being taken into consideration in SpaceEngine (redshift, real planet brightness, and more). I think more can be done with this.

From what I understand, ships traveling near light speed and beyond (perhaps because of constant acceleration travel, for example) will have unpleasant navigational obstacles.

As a ship travels faster, the light in front of it starts to shift into shorter wavelengths, and the light behind shifts into longer wavelengths. Thus, eventually light behind and in front shifts into IR/UV and beyond. Now, the visible light will only be visible at a certain angle (from the "equator" of the ships vision). Or, in simpler terms, a black circle would appear directly in front of and behind the ship. These circles would get larger and larger as less light is visible to us. Eventually, a small strip of light would be visible around the side of the ship- a thin horizon line with black above above and below.

Now, the good news is that the light is not gone. It's only shifted into higher/lower wavelengths. We can still detect higher levels of the EM spectrum, so navigation won't be impossible. The bad news (aside from the normal complications with constant acceleration travel) is that if you go fast enough, you will start to encounter gamma rays from the front of the ship (on an unrelated note, cosmic rays are just really, really short gamma rays, right?).

I think it would be cool if SpaceEngine had a mode (easily turned on and off) which simulated this. This would go very well with my previous suggestion about seeing the rest of the EM spectrum in SpaceEngine.

Now, I know that one of the propulsion concepts in SE involves constant transportation across millions of miles at thousands of jumps per second; perhaps this would eliminate the problem in reality, but you guys understand the point I'm trying to make, right? smile
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Monday, 30.07.2012, 14:08 | Message # 2
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werdnaforever, this has already been suggested here: http://en.spaceengine.org/forum/21-11-2031-16-1321114118

And you missed one effect of relativistic travel: everything would start compressing into a field of view in front of your ship. Close to the speed of light, even things that are behind you would be visible in front of your craft. A good layman's explanation of the relativistic effects of near-light-speed travel can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy7rrrCQh2w

And this video - if you can get past the machine-like narration - does a nice job of modelling and demonstrating those optical relativistic effects, unlike the Cosmos video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQnHTKZBTI4

Quote (werdnaforever)
cosmic rays are just really, really short gamma rays, right?

Cosmic rays are high-energy particle radiation (protons, electrons, helium nuclei, antiparticles, etc).





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SpaceEngineerDate: Monday, 30.07.2012, 22:47 | Message # 3
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In the game there will be no near-speed-of-light speeds. Ships will have maximum physical speed about few thousand kilometers per second, and use hyperdrive to fly to stars. There is no reason in implementing this, unless a single-player game with no hyperdrive.




 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Monday, 30.07.2012, 23:04 | Message # 4
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Quote (SpaceEngineer)
and use hyperdrive to fly to stars.


But isn't the hyperdrive more like a relativity drive? I mean it just speeds up local time and movement of the ship so basically you get to your destination only the crew is 120 years old tongue

Quote (SpaceEngineer)
unless a single-player game with no hyperdrive.


I think that is reason enough considering the large amount of people who like SP and flashy "realistic" effects.

Quote (SpaceEngineer)
In the game there will be no near-speed-of-light speeds.


Why? If you want realism then ships should be able to get to at least .25c considering there are already designs on ships to do this.





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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Monday, 30.07.2012, 23:04
 
SpaceEngineerDate: Monday, 30.07.2012, 23:09 | Message # 5
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Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
But isn't the hyperdrive more like a relativity drive? I mean it just speeds up local time and movement of the ship so basically you get to your destination only the crew is 120 years old

No. It is a FTL drive. It is the only unrealistic (probably smile ) technology in SE. The reason is to make interstellar flights fast, so we can make a real-time online game. It is impossible to make a different timeflow speed for different players on one server. And I don't want to make timeflow permanently accelerated for everyone.

Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
Why? If you want realism then ships should be able to get to at least .25c considering there are already designs on ships to do this.

They are not designed for it smile

*





 
HarbingerDawnDate: Monday, 30.07.2012, 23:21 | Message # 6
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Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
Why? If you want realism then ships should be able to get to at least .25c considering there are already designs on ships to do this.

The ship designs that are planned for SE have propulsion technologies that make such high speeds unnecessary.

Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
But isn't the hyperdrive more like a relativity drive? I mean it just speeds up local time and movement of the ship so basically you get to your destination only the crew is 120 years old

The idea behind the drive is explained in another post: http://en.spaceengine.org/forum/14-369-1

EDIT: Gah, ninja'd! biggrin





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Edited by HarbingerDawn - Monday, 30.07.2012, 23:21
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Monday, 30.07.2012, 23:37 | Message # 7
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Quote (SpaceEngineer)
It is impossible to make different timeflow speed for different players on one server. And I don't want make a timeflow permanently accelerated for everyone.


Ah that makes sense and I figured it was something along those lines.

Quote (SpaceEngineer)
They are not designet for it

Quote (HarbingerDawn)
The idea behind the drive is explained in another post: http://en.spaceengine.org/forum/14-369-1

EDIT: Gah, ninja'd!


Don't worry Harb. both posts were informative.





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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Monday, 30.07.2012, 23:38
 
werdnaforeverDate: Tuesday, 31.07.2012, 12:37 | Message # 8
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Thanks for the info, guys. smile
 
MilkyWay1994Date: Sunday, 17.03.2013, 01:41 | Message # 9
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Hi SpaceEngineers,

I really appreciated all the hard works you've done on this commercial-free project, and it's been the best space simulator so far. However, I found the project still lacks of relativistic physics. For instance, could you add the effects of Lorentz transformation and time dilation when the observer/space approaches the speed of light and higher? Moreover, could you also make such effects to be switched on or off based on the user's preference? If such effects were added in the future releases, SpaceEngine will be the most incredible space simulator in the world smile

Thanks,
Andy Cheng
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Sunday, 17.03.2013, 03:56 | Message # 10
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These won't be added, others have asked. However I think this would be a great thing for someone to eventually add through a plugin system.

Edit:

Simple search brings up multiple results
http://en.spaceengine.org/forum/8-871-8376-16-1343640913
http://en.spaceengine.org/forum/21-11-4#2031

And a quote from SapceEngineer
Quote (SpaceEngineer)
I don't want to make relativistic effects, because in game the spaceships will fly at physical velocities lower than 1000-10,000 km/s and will use hyperdrive for interstellar travels. Also, making such effects are difficult and reduce FPS greatly (like rendering to fish eye projection)





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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Sunday, 17.03.2013, 04:10
 
MilkyWay1994Date: Sunday, 17.03.2013, 04:34 | Message # 11
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Where and how can one add that through a plugin system?
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Sunday, 17.03.2013, 04:37 | Message # 12
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Quote (MilkyWay1994)
Where and how can one add that through a plugin system?


Nowhere as it doesn't exist, yet.

A plugin system is just something I hope gets added in some future version





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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Sunday, 17.03.2013, 04:37
 
MilkyWay1994Date: Monday, 18.03.2013, 04:53 | Message # 13
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Oh okay. But hypothetically is it possible to just add the time dilation effect part, which Celestia the space simulator includes already?
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Monday, 18.03.2013, 05:02 | Message # 14
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Quote (MilkyWay1994)
which Celestia the space simulator includes already?

Celestia does not have time dilation.





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SpaceEngineerDate: Monday, 18.03.2013, 10:32 | Message # 15
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Quote (HarbingerDawn)
Celestia does not have time dilation.


Celestia have time travel delay, you can toggle it by * if I remember correctly. It will greatly fix the appearence of a distant planets (like Jupiter system) observed from Earth, as light spends hours to travel such distance.

This is not really relativistic effect, but it will be added in SE later. It will have a great influence on gameplay. When ship enters the system an exit hyperdrive mode, all other ships (players) will see its arrivel several minutes or hours later. Any action of any player (turning of the ship, engaging of the engines, releasing of probes etc) will be seen by other players after such delay too. This will mask out a client-server network delay and allow have 1000+ players in the same system at the same time.





 
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