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Forum » SpaceEngine » Feedback and Suggestions » Planet measurements
Planet measurements
expandoDate: Tuesday, 06.12.2011, 13:26 | Message # 1
Space Pilot
Group: Users
Australia
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Hello spaceengineer.

I have always been interested in the expanding earth theory. There is a product @ www.eearthk.com (Expanding Earth Knowledge Co) called Expanding Earth Knowledge Globe Stand. It is useful for making measurements between two points on the globe and so forth, I thought it would be a nice to have something similar in Space Engine. It could also be used for measuring geological formations on mars and other planets in the system to see what parts expanded and how. Also for the earth, I assume in Space Engine there is no topographical data for the ocean floor to see the formations there such as mid ocean ridges, this would also be a nice addition.

Anyway this is the picture of the product they sell, and a picture I found what it might look like in Space Engine.



Thank you.





"Religion is regarded by the common people as true - by the wise as false - and by the rulers as useful."
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
 
gpaw5765Date: Tuesday, 06.12.2011, 14:10 | Message # 2
Astronaut
Group: Users
Spain
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I've just visited the site out of curiosity, and this is the summary of the "Expanding Earth Theory":

Quote (www.eearthk.com)

The earth has expanded. It has about doubled its radius in the last 250 million years. It is now expanding about 1" in radius per year and that rate is increasing exponentially. Mass is being gained. Gravity 250 million years ago was about 50% of today’s. The continental landmasses fit back nicely together on a smaller sphere. There were no oceans between the continents. There were no oceans, only shallow seas that covered much of the land. (Marine fossils of that time have been found on the land; not in the oceans.) The atmospheric pressure was likely much greater (aka, Venus). Oxygen content was less. Mass was gained in the core and grew and expanded out the mantle and crust. New minerals were produced. Natural gas and liquid petroleum were produced. The developing atmosphere outgassed from the interior. The water was created and outgassed and oozed from the interior. Insects, plants and animals evolved robustly to fill the available niches. They grew to gigantic size as low gravity and atmosphere will allow. As mass was gained, gravity increased, the atmosphere changed and large living things went extinct and were replaced by continually adapting smaller living things. Major earthquakes and super volcanoes and incredibly large lava flows catastrophically occurred as the crust readjusted to new pressures. And the cycle continues.
Likely the whole Universe, in some way, is expanding and creating new mass over time, and if we fit back into a thimble 13.7 Billion years ago, there wasn’t as much mass and matter then, as there is now.


Seiously, this single paragraph has more physical impossibilities than I would care to refute wacko





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expandoDate: Tuesday, 06.12.2011, 14:49 | Message # 3
Space Pilot
Group: Users
Australia
Messages: 87
Status: Offline
Hi gpaw5765 most people when they first hear it think it is an absurd theory but if you are interested have a look at some of the animations on youtube by Neal Adams, they are quite entertaining and informative. Also James Maxlow has a video on youtube titled "Yes! The Earth is Expanding."

I think the theory has alot of merit and also explains alot of other things.

I have used virtual globes like marble but doesn't have what I want in it and can't find any plugins.





"Religion is regarded by the common people as true - by the wise as false - and by the rulers as useful."
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
 
SpaceEngineerDate: Tuesday, 06.12.2011, 15:56 | Message # 4
Author of Space Engine
Group: Administrators
Russian Federation
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Measurement of distances on the planets is planned, it will be necessary in game to build roads between cities etc.

I agree with gpaw5765, Expanding Earth theory has a great number of impossibitities. It is a pseudo-scientific theory, and I don't include it in SE (BTW it is very hard to implement - changing of a surface of a planet over millions of years).

BTW, if 250 millions years ago Earth was 2 times smaller, its mass should be 8 times smaller (as long as volume is 8 times smaller), and the surface gravity was 4 times smaller (g ~ M/R2). It is close to Moon's gravity (1/6g), and Earth cannot handle atmosphere nor hydrosphere with such gravity. The only way to "save" theory, is to assume that the density of Earth decreases during expansion, and in past it would be 2 times greater. Now average density of Earth is 5.5 g/cm3, so in past it should be 11 g/cm3. The density of iron is 7.8 g/cm3, mercury is 13.5 g/cm3 so Earth 250 megayears must have had a big core maded of mercury, iron mantle and stone crust?...

*





 
expandoDate: Tuesday, 06.12.2011, 17:18 | Message # 5
Space Pilot
Group: Users
Australia
Messages: 87
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Well there are explanations, people assume that the core of the earth is iron and perhaps heavier elements but really at the center of the earth there is no gravity, so the core of the earth should be filled with lighter elements under pressure just as the lighter gases travel up into the atmosphere, the same happens inside the earth. I think the earth may generate the mass of lite elements such as hydrogen in it's center so the creation of hydrogen inside the core of the earth pushing the earth apart and spiting the earth's original crust & creating oceanic crust around them, hydrogen would not contribute greatly to increase gravity. Likely when the earth was originally formed, there was no hydrogen and lite elements, heavier elements attracted each other and the early earth contained mostly heavier elements. With the generation of hydrogen, oxygen also formed and created water which sept to the surface and filled between the continents.

Many Expanding Earth people believe it was the expanding earth which killed the dinosaurs as the dinosaurs did not have strong enough bodies or the ability to pump blood around some of the large bodies unless they lived in a reduced gravity environment.

Also about the core of the earth being hydrogen, many may dismiss this as they believe a liquid core of iron is needed to produce a magnetic field, many other planets have strong magnetic fields and they do not have a iron core, they are gas planets. Also I am not sure if molten iron can produce a magnetic field, it is only observed in solid iron.





"Religion is regarded by the common people as true - by the wise as false - and by the rulers as useful."
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
 
SpaceEngineerDate: Tuesday, 06.12.2011, 19:24 | Message # 6
Author of Space Engine
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Russian Federation
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Hydrogen (even in "metallic" state) has much less density than iron or rocks. There is no way to save hydrogen at the center of the Earth - as more denser solids will sink, hydrogen will lift up. And how is hydrogen created? From where in the Earth's core does it come? Anyway, a simple calculation with density that I've made in my previous post shows that this theory has huge problems.

PS: This thread goes off-topic somewhat, maybe move it to the off-topic section and rename it, and then create a new thread about measurements for planetary surfaces.

*





 
AtmoscatDate: Friday, 09.03.2012, 16:10 | Message # 7
Astronaut
Group: Users
Germany
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And to expand on the suggestion itself, it would be cool to be able to measure distances by simply clicking on the surface. For example, I am on the surface and see a row of mountains (or any particular surface feature) on the distant horizon, I could simply click on it , the next nearby generated vertex (?) would be selected and somehow highlighted (small red dot or s.th. similar) and the data window would show the current distance between me (my camera-point-of-view position) and the clicked spot on the terrain.
Also, it could be useful to have data of the azimuth, altitude (degrees above horizon) angles in respect to the local horizon when a celestial object is selected when "sitting" on the surface. Just an idea.





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curiousepicDate: Friday, 09.03.2012, 20:55 | Message # 8
Space Pilot
Group: SE team
United States
Messages: 141
Status: Offline
On the issue of "planet measurement", I've always wanted toggle-able indicators for 1 Earth radius, 1 Jupiter, 1 Sol, 1 AU, etc. just to give the player a bit more intuitive sense of scale if they want it.




My ideal preferences for visual design of the mothership and technology in SE
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