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Forum » SpaceEngine » Feedback and Suggestions » 3D water and clouds
3D water and clouds
arturuniverseDate: Tuesday, 02.08.2016, 19:13 | Message # 91
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form d k,no,of course not,I love Space Engine,I really do,Iv'e even doing some publicity to schools use the program to taught students,and some of them accepted it.
The "sick 'n' tired" is from the ocean rendering and volumetric clouds,no abou the rest.
All of Space Engine is perfect,but there are some smalls details that REALLY annoy me sometimes. And this is one of these.
Whitout the raging that I got yesterday, resuming in an educated way, Im just incoformed that after 5 years of discussion,we got this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrncjhUTfEg

Yes,I know how hard this is without making everything lag like my brain whe trying to understand modern art. But, a lot of indie developers like Hello Games,or Outerra project,or indie programmers,with DirectX 11 got this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPcBDjdr_I0 (Code in the description).
And,even this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUSdSjnDB_E (I tried contacting him).

And, I know the effort and time that Vlad put on these, but, planets are kinda of the main thing on Space Engine,y'know? I have the ideia of how many objects there are and whatever but,the planets are very important part of the game,you spend days exploring one!
So,my original complain is the simple fact that the engine don't renderer those things. And,if Vlad contracted professional guys to do the work,it would be much faster. Opening a kickstarter is more efficient than,for example,waiting here on the site,since SE is little known. In fact,In the main state of the game,people would show a lot of interest. But Vlasd sayed something abou not being viable in one of the emails.
But,anyways,my main objective here is to apologise and make everyone happy,m'kay? :D

(P.S: If anyone actually get offended by my original comment on the thread,Im really sorry).
(P.S 2: Here is another program http://www.outerra.com/wgallery.html , that probably appeared here before.)
(P.S 3: Here is code: http://www.codinglabs.net/article_physically_based_rendering.aspx).





We all have an end, but we choose and create that end by ourselves.

Edited by arturuniverse - Tuesday, 02.08.2016, 19:41
 
sinsforealDate: Tuesday, 02.08.2016, 19:20 | Message # 92
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Volumetric clouds and proper 3d water are not possible in the current version and will require a engine rewrite before we get to 1.0




"Man once looked up at the stars and wondered, Now all we do is look at our hands and hesitate"
 
arturuniverseDate: Tuesday, 02.08.2016, 19:40 | Message # 93
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sinsforreal, I am absolutely consciente abou that,since in the page,2-4 he syas something like: "Just in version 9.9.3 1a",I think.




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SpaceEngineerDate: Tuesday, 02.08.2016, 21:55 | Message # 94
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Quote arturuniverse ()
spacer, I know that,i actually am concerned about Vlad mental health sometimes,I mean,is too much for one person.

I am okay, thanks smile I think I am at better mental health than many people across the world who are forced to make job they dislike.





 
arturuniverseDate: Tuesday, 02.08.2016, 23:53 | Message # 95
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Oh.Im glad to hear that.
Concerned about your stress.





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form_d_kDate: Wednesday, 03.08.2016, 19:29 | Message # 96
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Thank you for responding. On my end, I'm seeing more & more critical comments towards what is the most amazing single-developer application I have ever seen. I feel the need to defend Space Engine. :P

Quote arturuniverse ()
Yes,I know how hard this is without making everything lag like my brain whe trying to understand modern art. But, a lot of indie developers like Hello Games,or Outerra project,or indie programmers,with DirectX 11 got this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPcBDjdr_I0 (Code in the description).
And,even this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUSdSjnDB_E (I tried contacting him).

And, I know the effort and time that Vlad put on these, but, planets are kinda of the main thing on Space Engine,y'know? I have the ideia of how many objects there are and whatever but,the planets are very important part of the game,you spend days exploring one!


There are many factors to keep in mind:
- The codebase is very complex, and it may not be as easy to implement 3D volumetric clouds & water as it is in projects specifically designed to do so.
- Space Engineer has expressed a desire to remain as scientifically accurate as possible. Clouds & liquid bodies outside of Earth cannot be expected to behave as they do here. For example, Titan contains lakes, rivers, & rainclouds comprised of liquid ethane & methane. The dynamics of those liquids are vastly different than anything naturally occurring on Earth. Beyond that consideration, Space Engineer might also want to model a variety of other complex variables (wind conditions, evaporation, atmospheric pressure, tidal forces, etc. etc.)
- One of the videos you link to is a student's thesis project. Space Engineer doesn't have months free to implement dynamic water & clouds. He has limited time after work to devote to Space Engine.

Be patient. smile Space Engineer has delivered on some incredible promises already. In the face of our anticipation, progress can seem slow. But I am confident Space Engineer can deliver.

Quote arturuniverse ()
So,my original complain is the simple fact that the engine don't renderer those things. And,if Vlad contracted professional guys to do the work,it would be much faster. Opening a kickstarter is more efficient than,for example,waiting here on the site,since SE is little known. In fact,In the main state of the game,people would show a lot of interest. But Vlasd sayed something abou not being viable in one of the emails.


I doubt he has the time or resources to outsource the project to a team of professionals. A Kickstarter campaign has many positives & negatives, but I doubt that Kickstarter would help Space Engineer accomplish his vision. He isn't bound to any sort of release schedule, and is able to take as much time & care on features as he feels is needed.

If I were a billionaire, there'd be dozens of little passion projects I'd do. But one of them would be flying to St. Petersburg with an obscenely large amount of cash to convince Mr. Romanyuk to put together a top-tier team of developers & astrophysicists. After 5 years, he'd be awarded a Nobel Prize or two.


Edited by form_d_k - Wednesday, 03.08.2016, 19:41
 
arturuniverseDate: Wednesday, 03.08.2016, 20:22 | Message # 97
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Quote
There are many factors to keep in mind:
- The codebase is very complex, and it may not be as easy to implement 3D volumetric clouds & water as it is in projects specifically designed to do so.
- Space Engineer has expressed a desire to remain as scientifically accurate as possible. Clouds & liquid bodies outside of Earth cannot be expected to behave as they do here. For example, Titan contains lakes, rivers, & rainclouds comprised of liquid ethane & methane. The dynamics of those liquids are vastly different than anything naturally occurring on Earth. Beyond that consideration, Space Engineer might also want to model a variety of other complex variables (wind conditions, evaporation, atmospheric pressure, tidal forces, etc. etc.)
- One of the videos you link to is a student's thesis project. Space Engineer doesn't have months free to implement dynamic water & clouds. He has limited time after work to devote to Space Engine.


I am completely aware of these. For example,a methane river,or a mercury lake,has different superficial tension and different viscosity than water,and thats where the procedural code comes in: With a few open variables, maybe a lot,some thousands, the game can render different liquids depending on the ambient,since there is different atmo pressure,wind,gravity,and stuff like that,but,seeing the engine in a video,trying to render a simple code,would be neat,since we could just see the engine capabilities.
And,of course,I know his schedule with Space Engine is very,very hard. Mate,Iv'e seen threads of 2-3 years ago,turning into reality just now,so I see that he is a busy person,and that Space Engine,is not a work,but a hobby,that impressionated hundreds of people all over the world.

Quote
If I were a billionaire, there'd be dozens of little passion projects I'd do. But one of them would be flying to St. Petersburg with an obscenely large amount of cash to convince Mr. Romanyuk to put together a top-tier team of developers & astrophysicists. After 5 years, he'd be awarded a Nobel Prize or two.


Yes,that would be very cool but,look at the situation here: How he gets donation? By people.
Now see that? [color=red]People[color=red].
How we gonna get donations if there aren't too many people on the SE community? I am literally not sleeping trying to spread the existence to the world.
In emails, reddit, to a lot of people. And, why Kickstarter? You "":
Quote
A Kickstarter campaign has many positives & negatives, but I doubt that Kickstarter would help Space Engineer accomplish his vision. He isn't bound to any sort of release schedule, and is able to take as much time & care on features as he feels is needed.
.

See this:
http://prntscr.com/c19aoj

1 one of these is a ridiculous boarding game of kittens.
1 is a video game console.
2 of them are made by consagrated developers.
And the rest,is from indie developers that are sucessuful and well known.
I am sure that a game with the capabilities of SE,and it's promise,it's almost instant sucess.
And people found idiotic stuff,why not an work of art?

Attachments: 1017100.png(50Kb)





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arturuniverseDate: Wednesday, 03.08.2016, 21:25 | Message # 98
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And,this:
https://www.cs.ubc.ca/~heidrich/Papers/GI.98.pdf





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MosfetDate: Wednesday, 03.08.2016, 22:58 | Message # 99
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Kickstarter is not available for Russian creators.

Quote

Q - Where is Kickstarter available?
A - Anyone, anywhere can pledge to a project with a major credit or debit card. Anyone in Austria, Australia, Belgium, Canada, Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, Spain, France, the UK, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, New Zealand, Sweden, or the US can start a project.





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Edited by Mosfet - Wednesday, 03.08.2016, 22:59
 
arturuniverseDate: Thursday, 04.08.2016, 00:41 | Message # 100
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So why we just rise the money,put in the account of a trustable people of Vlad, and then, he passe the money via dpamtion directly form the website?




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MosfetDate: Thursday, 04.08.2016, 07:39 | Message # 101
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Umm, this is going way off topic...
arturuniverse, there is a progress bar at the home page where it says "Support SpaceEngine!". If you click on that, you'll find an existing Funding and Donations page (which is directly reachable from the main menu, under the search module), where people can help giving money to Vladimir with credit cards or via paypal.





"Time is illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."
Douglas N. Adams
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DeathStarDate: Thursday, 04.08.2016, 08:40 | Message # 102
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I'm personally highly against Kickstarter - it'd just introduce deadlines and stress to SpaceEngineer. Look what happened to Limit Theory recently. Also, 50k of donations in a bit more than two years proves that the current system is enough(at least for now).
 
arturuniverseDate: Thursday, 04.08.2016, 09:46 | Message # 103
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Also,this is an article of creation to 3D ocean rendering,using DirectX 11 or beyond,you cna ge this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9skKfqpU8y4
The journal of development by the guy:
http://www.gamedev.net/blog/1302-silviu-andreis-journal/
And his codes:
http://www.gamedev.net/user/170319-silviu-andrei/

But,clouds are my worrie,so yeah.





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arturuniverseDate: Thursday, 04.08.2016, 16:19 | Message # 104
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Mosfet,yes,I know the doantion page,I even mentioned her in the commentary.
But,if SE is not even well knownmhow a lot of people gonna donate?





We all have an end, but we choose and create that end by ourselves.
 
spacerDate: Thursday, 04.08.2016, 17:42 | Message # 105
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for my opinion kickstarter or other site russians can take part will be great donation boost for space engine.
but the problem of that. that to do project like that for donations site. take long time, pressure and work.
and space engineer is only one guy. see in kickstarter etc. the developers need to show amazing stuff so ppl will donate.
also space engineer will need to make promises or to show 3D water and clouds for exmple.
and he need to make it happen and work even more.
donations sites projects need to be done when the developers are ready to do it.





"we began as wanderers, and we are wanderers still"
-carl sagan

-space engine photographer
 
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