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Forum » SpaceEngine » Feedback and Suggestions » General suggestions (Post your suggestions here.)
General suggestions
HarbingerDawnDate: Wednesday, 29.10.2014, 14:12 | Message # 406
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Quote apenpaap ()
Would the community compiling a list of catalog stars with wrong spectral classes (the giant orange and red dwarf stars) be any use to SpaceEngineer?

http://en.spaceengine.org/forum/17-2278-1

This topic and thread are also listed in the FAQ.





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FastFourierTransformDate: Wednesday, 29.10.2014, 19:34 | Message # 407
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Quote SpaceEngineer ()
First of all, they are not so common. Usually hight eccentric orbits reduces to almost circular when additional planets discovered around the star. So this effect is a lack of knowledge of full architecture of the system. Also, you have written: 7% of all stars, where planets have been found.


Aahh, okey, I understand, good point. But beside that I think there are quite a lot real eccentric planets. And there are many many mechanisms to explain eccentricity excitations in the formation of planetary bodies (as well as eccentricity damping as you have mentioned). Here you have some very recent theory about how the eccentricity can in fact appear with varius mechanisms.

Quote SpaceEngineer ()
Anyway, hi-eccentric and inclination planets should be of course, and the will be implemented in the new system generation code. Not in 0.972 though.


I would love to see that. Can't wait.

Quote SpaceEngineer ()
you made a good research, thanks for links. On the Russian forum, I have a special thread where I collect links to articles related to planetary system architecture, formation and evolution. i am periodically refer to it when I made changes in the solar system generator code. If you have a account on the Russian forum, I would ask you to copy your post there, to have all in one place. Otherwise I can copy it myself.


Thank you. I don't have an account on the russian forum and I know very little of your language but if you want to copy paste this I would be very very ammused. smile

Thanks for the work.
I think that when you change the system generator we are going to have a great Space Engine revolution (interplanetary Objects, Intergalactic Objetcs, Trojan Objects, Eccentric orbits, Highly inclined orbits, circumbinary orbits on planets and moons and rings, etc...)
 
SpaceEngineerDate: Thursday, 30.10.2014, 14:54 | Message # 408
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Quote FastFourierTransform ()
Thank you. I don't have an account on the russian forum and I know very little of your language but if you want to copy paste this I would be very very ammused.

I mean you could make a copy-past under your nick there. To save you as an author.





 
FastFourierTransformDate: Saturday, 01.11.2014, 23:28 | Message # 409
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This night I dreamed with the 0.9.7.2 release hahahahahahaha I'm getting crazy (I have no hurry in this but I think a lot on space when I go to sleep). The dream was not so amazing but I remember seeing rings around asteroids like Chariklo ect...

One of the things I saw is what I want to propose por Space Engine (even with the lack of proper references and calculations). I would be very glad to hear what all of you think about the idea (and i'm asking Vladimir about the feasibility of this for the next version)


Lava Rings

In planets, sufficently close to their stars to melt rock and sufficiently far to allow to a ring system to exist (maybe in small mass, but very hot and bright, stars) there should be "lava rings", formed by a glowing flow of small incandescent particles, and melted debris in orbit. The rings would have some kind of redish glow. The part in shadow (by the eclipsing planet) would have some gradient of brightness and black body colour shift to the lower temperatures (because the dissipation of heat in the night side would freeze the melted small particles rapidly). The minimum of brightness would be in the frontier of exiting shadow, and the the temperature would rise again rapidly creating another small gradient in that zone.
The lava ring in shadow would have also a radial component of the colour-brightness gradient: the inner parts of the ring would transit the "cooling zone" created by the shadow more rapidly. Perhaps so fast that this part of the ring system would be perpetually glowing, but the farthest part of the ring would cross the shadow with so many time that the particles would stop glowing at some point.

The inner part of the lava ring, because is closer to the planet surface and because it's hotter during the transit in the planetary shadow, could maybe illuminate some equatorial latitudes of the planet's night side. I haven't done any calculations but I suppose that the equator woudn't be so bright because the lava ring would apear in the sky only like a fire line dividing the celestial sphere at night (and would occult the rest of the ring). Instead, on higher and lower latitudes, near the equator, the glowing surface area of the ring would appear bigger in the sky, so the landscape in those nigh side latitudes would be more illuminated. There is probably a latitude with the maximum brighness because near the poles the brighness would start to decrease again due to the atmospheric extintion (because the glowing ring would appear in the horizon) and due to the higher distance to the ring. So the night side of the planet probably would look like two fringes, equally separated by the equator, of redish ambient light.

I was thinking also about seasonal changes. In the equinioxes (refering to the moment when the star is in the same plane of the rings) the outer rings would block the light of the star, absorbing all the heat. This would cause that the ring system in the equinoxes would be an outer lava ring and then a normal solidified ring (for small periods of time obviously).

All the idea of cooling and the creation of differentiated temperature on the ring system occurs because I have assumed that the particles are small and thus uncapable of retaining the heat, otherwise the ring would only be a "disk of lava".

I've tried to picture this idea using SE and a few hours at photoshop. Enjoy it smile
I can't do this better but you get a lot of the idea.

FROM THE EQUATOR OF THE PLANET (NIGHT SIDE):


HERE YOU CAN SEE THE ILLUMINATION (WITH THE OBSCURED EQUATOR) OF THE NIGH SIDE VIEWED FROM SPACE


THIS IS THE RING SYSTEM AS IT WOULD APPEAR ON THE EQUINOXES


AND FINALLY, THE RING SYSTEM AND ILLUMINATION OF THE DIFFERENT PARTS (WITH THE COOLING PHENOMENA IN THE SHADOW OF THE PLANET AND THE HEATING AFTER THE SHADOW). NOTICE THE DIFFERENT SPEED OF THE INNER RINGS WITH RESPECT TO THE OUTER ONES THAT MAKE THE HEATING-COOLING EFFECT ORIENTED IN THAT MANNER.


tHIS HAS TO BE ON SPACE ENGINE (IF ALL WHAT I SAID HAS SENSE). My dream was trully awesome and detailed, I hope to experience it one more time with the future Space Engine smile
 
JCandeiasDate: Sunday, 02.11.2014, 01:44 | Message # 410
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Quote FastFourierTransform ()
One of the things I saw is what I want to propose por Space Engine (even with the lack of proper references and calculations). I would be very glad to hear what all of you think about the idea (and i'm asking Vladimir about the feasibility of this for the next version)

Lava Rings


Color me extremely skeptical. Rings so close to a star that they get heated into lava (i.e., in orbits that are practically grazing... I can't fathom what stars may follow your criteria of being "low-mass but very hot and bright"; the brightest stages in a star's life are during formation and in the dying phases, but then they are more luminous because they are much bigger than during "adulthood", not because they are any hotter... in the case of red giants, in fact, they are much colder) are all but impossible because not only the stellar wind would disrupt them in no time, the mere gradient in gravitational pull between the star-facing part of the ring orbit and the part in opposition would create very fast tidal disruption as well.

Note that there's no evidence of lava in sun-grazing comets: they get torn apart way before they reach that stage, and even considering that most of the composition of comets is ices the mineral portion is more solid than the collection of particles in independent orbits that make up planetary or sub-planetary rings... which has also implications for heat dissipation, by the way.

So yeah, it makes for cool pictures, but I very much doubt that such features exist in nature at all.





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AerospacefagDate: Sunday, 02.11.2014, 22:34 | Message # 411
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In the possible future, if some sort of multi-spectral observation will be developed, it can be used to demonstrate IR-radiation from those rings, when they are hidden in the shadow of the planet - in the visible spectrum they are not hot enough to give off light.

The original idea seems good, but I did not find any ringed planets in the vicinity of star, they tend to be surrounded by the several small rocks, but those would cool down too slow to give this effect.


Edited by Aerospacefag - Sunday, 02.11.2014, 22:35
 
apenpaapDate: Monday, 03.11.2014, 12:01 | Message # 412
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Could such lava rings maybe exist if the rings were very young? Of course, rings consist of small objects, so they'd cool down a lot faster than planets, but they'd presumably stay hot for a little while.




I occasionally stream at http://www.twitch.tv/magistermystax. Sometimes SE, sometimes other games.
 
WatsisnameDate: Monday, 03.11.2014, 13:00 | Message # 413
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Pretty cool idea and good work drawing up the visualizations. I wish you wouldn't use all caps sentences, though, please don't do that in the future.

Couple of things to mention about it:

Quote FastFourierTransform ()
THIS IS THE RING SYSTEM AS IT WOULD APPEAR ON THE EQUINOXES


Thin ring systems [in this scenario] would not self-shadow against the sun. If the sun's apparent size is small enough that they are self-shadowing, then the sunlight is too weak to be heating them at all.

You would also not see so clearly the thermal emission from the directly illuminated section of the rings -- it is too faint compared to the reflected sunlight, unless the albedo is extremely small, like charcoal. The glow would be most apparent from within the planet's shadow.

Your intuition that the inner portion of the rings maintain the glow over a longer arc through the shadowed portion is good. Angular speed of orbiting bodies goes with M1/2r-3/2.

As for the plausibility of lava rings in general... obviously they cannot work for ice/volatile rings, because they'd just vaporize. But rings made of rocky material could do this, if it is possible for them to remain in a stable configuration while being heated so intensely. I'm not certain about that. Tidal forces are not necessarily an issue, especially for less dense stars and tight ring systems.

Recently formed rings, as though from a tidally disrupted body, could be hot for a little while. This requires that the body still had a hot core (sufficiently massive and not too old) to begin with, because tidal disruption itself does not produce a great deal of heat. The pieces would cool down fairly quickly, with cooling time proportional to the inverse square of the radius if there are no additional heat sources.

Ed: Not sure where I got inverse square from there -- I must have been thinking of m/r^2.





 
second-ichDate: Monday, 03.11.2014, 19:13 | Message # 414
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I have just a little suggestion: If SpaceEngine is lagging than even the sound/music stops playing. I think you often wouldn't notice the shutter but for the sound.

Would it be possible that the music is still playing on even if the SpaceEngine is lagging?
 
SpaceEngineerDate: Monday, 03.11.2014, 19:37 | Message # 415
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Quote FastFourierTransform ()
In planets, sufficently close to their stars to melt rock and sufficiently far to allow to a ring system to exist (maybe in small mass, but very hot and bright, stars) there should be "lava rings", formed by a glowing flow of small incandescent particles, and melted debris in orbit.

It is very doubtful for hot planets to having rings. Dust grains will be simply "blown away" by the light pressure, more big particles would be unstable. Only relatively rarefied rings made of big asteroids could exist in stable state around planets on wide orbits around red giants (hot planet of sun-like stars simply have too small hill sphere to hold rings or moons). Ring particles also cannot be too hot, because they will start to sublime.

Quote FastFourierTransform ()
The inner part of the lava ring, because is closer to the planet surface and because it's hotter during the transit in the planetary shadow, could maybe illuminate some equatorial latitudes of the planet's night side.

This is extremely complex to implement. "Usual" planets with rings must have a ring-planet and planet-ring illumination system, but it will be very complex. Some sort of real-time raycasting, or indirect illumination, or precomputed light integrals... I didn't thought about that too much.

Very beautiful images!





 
FastFourierTransformDate: Monday, 03.11.2014, 22:47 | Message # 416
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Quote Watsisname ()
Pretty cool idea and good work drawing up the visualizations.


Quote SpaceEngineer ()
Very beautiful images!


Quote Aerospacefag ()
The original idea seems good


Quote JCandeias ()
it makes for cool pictures


Thanks to all of you for responding to me, I've put a lot of work on those visulizations.

Quote Watsisname ()
Thin ring systems [in this scenario] would not self-shadow against the sun. If the sun's apparent size is small enough that they are self-shadowing, then the sunlight is too weak to be heating them at all.


That is a really good point thanks to notice. That visulization has little sense.

Quote Watsisname ()
You would also not see so clearly the thermal emission from the directly illuminated section of the rings -- it is too faint compared to the reflected sunlight, unless the albedo is extremely small, like charcoal.


Well, I don't know very much about geochemistry to tell, but If the dust in the ring melts periodically, wouldn't it be like charcoal in albedo? I mean, is like volcanic ash probably.

Quote JCandeias ()
Color me extremely skeptical.

Quote JCandeias ()
but I very much doubt that such features exist in nature at all.


This is the type of comment that I really aprecieate. You skepticism es very welcome. I have been also quite deceived with this idea, So for 2 days I have been making calculations to see if it is reasonably possible that this kind of object exists or not. And today finally I have finished, and I can tell that it may exists but in a narrow spectrum of stellar masses and distances and other conditions (still billions of cases in the universe probably). So, yes I think this maybe posible. The problem of finding a scenario with sufficently high heat flux to melt the rings and at the same time a sufficiently small gravitational tidal forces to mantain the ring structure, is quite difficult.
Your interest and comments have motivated me to do the precise calculations and tomorrow or the next day I will post them here.
I think it's a very interesting and beutifull feature, and (if I'm right with my math and presuppositions) then this is also a premiere knowledge directly intruduced to the programm.

Soon I will post the facts smile


Edited by FastFourierTransform - Monday, 03.11.2014, 22:53
 
n0b0dyDate: Friday, 21.11.2014, 09:15 | Message # 417
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May I suggest that the star browser be renamed to star system or just system browser since a system can contain multiple stars? Sorry if this has been suggested before.. Not a big deal thowgh..
 
FireintheholeDate: Wednesday, 26.11.2014, 18:23 | Message # 418
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I think the limiting magnitude would increase when the exposure increases, and vice versa. It would also be cool if the limiting magnitude showed a higher number when something bright is within the frame. For example, looking at Earth, the limiting magnitude perhaps is about +1.0. Moving around, so that the Earth goes out of the FOV, the limiting magnitude would increase until the preset value.




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HarbingerDawnDate: Thursday, 27.11.2014, 02:32 | Message # 419
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This will happen once proper autoexposure is implemented.




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PlutonianEmpireDate: Wednesday, 03.12.2014, 07:19 | Message # 420
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Not necessarily an SE suggestion, but would it be possible to compile a list of requests and suggestions users have made, in this thread and/or elsewhere, to minimize repeats of these requests? Or has that already been done? smile




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