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Forum » SpaceEngine » Feedback and Suggestions » Intelligent life and civilizations (Improved procedurally generated descriptions for planets)
Intelligent life and civilizations
HanakofuroshiraDate: Saturday, 09.07.2016, 16:23 | Message # 46
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One could even argue that robots are life since they can technically reproduce by creating more, although thy would have to built or programmed to do so. Someday, robots may become fully autonomous in their decision making, which means that they will do what any lifeforms would do; reproduce. They wouldn't be life as we usually define it since the only real 'organ' they need is their brain to process information. They need no heart to circulate blood and no lungs to use oxygen for bodily processes. They would be efficient lifeforms, more hardy than any human could.

Life as we know it seems easy to explain with five or six basic processes to define them with as 'living'. Carbon is a pretty stable element to base life off of, but that's just how life on Earth is. What about Titan or Europa? What about any currently theoretical forms of life? We don't know what the general consensus for life is around the universe, but Earth is the only place we know of so far. What happens if life here was just an accident? We simply don't know.





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MosfetDate: Saturday, 09.07.2016, 17:10 | Message # 47
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There's a difference between being "alive" and being "sentient", they're not always interchangeable terms. A full AI surely is sentient, but is it alive? From a biological/chemical point of view, it is not.
The same could be applied to a sentient robot. Unless it's not automatically mimicking biological processes like some known type of reproduction and growth... is it truly alive?





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steeljaw354Date: Saturday, 09.07.2016, 17:33 | Message # 48
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Well what defines "alive" ?
 
HanakofuroshiraDate: Saturday, 09.07.2016, 17:43 | Message # 49
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I know that sentience and being alive aren't interchangeable terms, but it's still something really interesting to consider when trying to create an accurate formula to find life in the cosmos. It's like how some people mix up sentience and sapience. As far as I know on this subject(please feel free to correct me), all organic life on Earth is obviously alive, but I recall that the cells that make up our bodies are essentially organic machines. They operate in such a way to give rise to all of our various processes and behaviours. I personally believe that DNA was just a spontaneous accident, and that our brains were an accident as well.

If anyone's heard of Conway's Game of Life, that's kind of how I view life. Any basic setup can create any random process, but it's the more complex setups that create complex 'organs' and/or 'machines' that can produce autonomous life such as oscillating planes or even complex 'machines' that build life from nothing. It isn't how our life works, but it's a really good way to view how certain elements can create an 'alive' creature. In fact, there's different forms of the game where the live/death parameters are changed, leading to unique lifeforms for that particular configuration, which can be viewed as different elements or even different universe where the laws of physics are different. It's pretty interesting.

I believe that there's a wiki online that catalogs and researches all of the different possible outcomes for Conway's Life, but don't quote me.





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steeljaw354Date: Saturday, 09.07.2016, 18:07 | Message # 50
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I define alive as something being able to move on it's own, without natural processes, like walking and talking.
 
HanakofuroshiraDate: Saturday, 09.07.2016, 18:43 | Message # 51
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I might mess this up from memory, but I believe there are six parameters that all living things must be able to do(this is for life as we know it, you know, Earth).

Living beings must able to move around, grow in size, reproduce, absorb nutrition, experience and react to stimuli, extract energy and bodily resources from the environment, and expel the waste as to not clutter up the body.

Now, the life we know does this. Now that I think about it, cells are technically alive with because they have these characteristics, but they are mechanical in their nature. They do not 'think' like we do. They do not utilise memories to solve problems, but they do have memory cells that store information to fight off viruses from previous encounters. Plants do not feel emotions like we do, but they do experience pain and are able to communicate among their fellow plants to strengthen themselves in case the danger spreads. Animals do not have the informational capacity that our brain does(I believe that our closest cousins, bonobos and chimps can get as smart as the average six-year old). They do experience feelings and they do remember previous encounters. They are sentient, because they can perceive. Not on the same scale as us humans, but they are still sentient.





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WatsisnameDate: Saturday, 09.07.2016, 19:35 | Message # 52
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Quote Hanakofuroshira ()
One could even argue that robots are life since they can technically reproduce by creating more, although thy would have to built or programmed to do so.


Absolutely. You might find this a good read. smile

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article....2008-02

Quote steeljaw354 ()
I define alive as something being able to move on it's own, without natural processes, like walking and talking.


All processes are natural. That is old lousy 20th century thinking. smile Trying to separate natural from unnatural will only lead to profound confusion, and arises from miscomprehension of what nature is.

Do pollen grains move naturally? Yes? It's simple blind physics?

Ok, how about those Maple seeds that spin like helicopter blades as they fall? It's simple blind physics that makes them spin, but the design which allows it to occur arose through natural selection. "It didn't arise through intelligence", you say? Of course it did, for what is intelligence other than the solving of novel problems for increased fitness?

How about the propulsion of a jellyfish? Simple mechanical operation with thoughtless reflexes. Jellyfish don't even have brains! How can they be alive?

Natural or "unnatural", intelligence or blind physics... These are wrong. It is not a matter of "either/or". It is a matter of degree. It's a useless way of looking at the world.

The perfect hexagonal structure of honeycomb arises through simple mechanical instructions with no concept of geometry whatsoever. Honeycomb is natural.

Flames can move and do so in a way which promotes their own growth and attainment of more resources. They are not alive.

Crystals can grow and reproduce. They are not alive.

Life is a system which self-propagates its information forward through subsequent generations with Darwinian evolution.

You can create life on your desktop computer.





 
abyssoftDate: Sunday, 10.07.2016, 19:11 | Message # 53
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Quote steeljaw354 ()
Well what defines "alive" ?

The 7 Characteristics of Life (normalized to be non-terracentric)


    1 Living Things are Composed of Units

      in the form of organelles (single form) or
      specialized units (complex form)

    2 Living Things Have Different Levels of Organization

      both molecular and unit organization
      must be able to organize simple substances into complex ones, the converse does not have to be true.

    3 Living Things Use Energy
      Living things take in energy and use it for maintenance and growth

    4 Living Things Respond To Their Environment

      Living things will make changes in response to a stimulus in their environment.
      A behavior is a complex set of responses.

    5 Living Things Grow

      unit division - the orderly formation of new units.
      unit enlargement - the increase in size of a unit. Units grow to a certain size and then divide.
      An organism gets larger as the number of its Units increases.

    6 Living Things Reproduce

      Reproduction is not essential for the survival of individual organisms, but must occur for a species to survive.
      All living things reproduce in one of the following ways:

        Asexual repoduction - Producing offspring without the use of gametes.
        Sexual reproduction - Producing offspring by the joining of sex cells.


    7 Living Things Adapt To Their Environment:

      Adaptations are traits giving an organism an advantage in a certain environment.
      Variation of individuals is important for a healthy species.

 
gamadhDate: Thursday, 28.07.2016, 19:54 | Message # 54
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intelligent life will come in space engine? smile

Added (28.07.2016, 19:49)
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perhaps intelligent life can be done in an easier way for example, an indicator saying that there is intelligent life on the planet and perhaps lights on the dark side or something like procedural technology. but it is probably much more complicated than that

Added (28.07.2016, 19:54)
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it is not necessary to be extremely intelligent life because this kind of life should be rare , and it would be nice if the closer to the center of the galaxy evolved is life, this could apply to some planets

 
arturuniverseDate: Tuesday, 02.08.2016, 21:57 | Message # 55
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Why we don't just talk to Species ALRE developers? I think they can help us,at least give some advice.




We all have an end, but we choose and create that end by ourselves.
 
DeathStarDate: Tuesday, 02.08.2016, 22:35 | Message # 56
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Quote arturuniverse ()
Why we don't just talk to Species ALRE developers? I think they can help us,at least give some advice.


Species ALRE has a FAR smaller scope than SpaceEngine, taking place in a small, limited map with 1000 individual creatures at most. It's kind of like asking Boeing how to make your refrigerator fly.
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Wednesday, 03.08.2016, 01:58 | Message # 57
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Quote DeathStar ()
It's kind of like asking Boeing how to make your refrigerator fly.


With a nosecone, some wings, and a tail the average refrigerator would actually make a somewhat decent airplane.





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DeathStarDate: Wednesday, 03.08.2016, 15:37 | Message # 58
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Quote DoctorOfSpace ()
With a nosecone, some wings, and a tail the average refrigerator would actually make a somewhat decent airplane.


Lol, I guess so, but you get my point.
 
swimswam1339Date: Thursday, 18.08.2016, 05:16 | Message # 59
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Would be great to have this but improbable




The young and the old, just numbers.
 
hunterbickel2003Date: Thursday, 25.08.2016, 03:00 | Message # 60
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so one day when we have good enough computers to support civilization, it would be cool if the cities and buildings are numbered so you can visit alot of them.
 
Forum » SpaceEngine » Feedback and Suggestions » Intelligent life and civilizations (Improved procedurally generated descriptions for planets)
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