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Forum » SpaceEngine » Archive » Work progress and public beta test - 0.9.7.4
Work progress and public beta test - 0.9.7.4
quarior14Date: Saturday, 07.11.2015, 10:22 | Message # 751
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Quote DoctorOfSpace ()
Quote quarior14

there will soon be white hole and wormhole ?


Impossible to know at this time if such things will be added.

Maybe if for white hole, then I do not know if it's like that in reality but I have seen SpaceEngineer and that white hole are the opposite of black hole (and future), it I think just enough to reverse the black and white by the red (inside) / blue (outside) of the black hole in blue (inside) / red (outside) (I hope you have understood the meaning red / blue - > blue / red, it is Doppler's effect).
For wormholes, here's how I would say :
We imagine, for example (DoctorOfSpace will recognize her and other mod the Interstellar movie but it's just for an example) 2 wormholes, toward Saturn (Wa) and another to Garguanta (Wb).
The simplest is that I draw black hole made by SpaceEngineer but instead of black texture, Wa shows Wb's around (roughly Garguanta) depending on the position where you are and vice versa but after you must connect (with just a line of code such as :
Code
Wormhole "Wa"
{
ParentBody "Saturn"
Radius 24 //km
RotationPeriod 4 //hours if the warmhole have a rotation
Goto "Wb" //Destination
Orbit
{
/*tag orbit*/
}
}
), for now we will say that this is the easy part.
But wormholes are the same as the black hole red / blue (Doppler effect), we will say that it's the same for simplicity, finally, the "texture" of the wormhole will be a little red with this.
Following is what teleportation is instantaneous, or as in the film Interstellar there a while before joining Wb not to mention that there's wormholes are located at the same time but it's good because I imagine the to temporal holes, oops, already certe it will be "a little" complicated coded but after that it should work properly.
In short there after coding, I know nothing but I hope it'll help.
Talking about that DoctorOfSpace, you will not need to use the "star accretion disks" to Garguanta ^^.





Quarior

Edited by quarior14 - Saturday, 07.11.2015, 10:30
 
DwardenDate: Saturday, 07.11.2015, 12:18 | Message # 752
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very nice work on the blackhole improvements ,
so I assume the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrophysical_jet


e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messier_87 might happen one day too smile





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Edited by Dwarden - Saturday, 07.11.2015, 12:19
 
grampiponDate: Saturday, 07.11.2015, 15:02 | Message # 753
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There aren't going to be any wormholes or white holes. White holes are a theory to which evidence hadn't been found, and "actual" worm holes are also just a theory and are supposed to be smaller than an atom.
 
sinsforealDate: Saturday, 07.11.2015, 16:18 | Message # 754
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Quote sinsforeal ()
How big will accretion disk's be?


I would like this answered along with another question.

Will accretion disk's count as a "light source"?





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parameciumkidDate: Sunday, 08.11.2015, 01:32 | Message # 755
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I'd be completely in favor of artificial wormholes as a mechanic in some future version. Particularly if SE becomes an MMO, setting up a wormhole network would be good for getting routine missions places without having to slog through hyperdrive mechanics for every ship.




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DoctorOfSpaceDate: Sunday, 08.11.2015, 01:46 | Message # 756
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Quote parameciumkid ()
setting up a wormhole network would be good for getting routine missions places without having to slog through hyperdrive mechanics for every ship.


If wormholes were ever added, at least in a plausible manner, they should require you to actually travel between stars using the hyperdrive first.

Perhaps building something like this in orbit around a star


If you, or anyone else, wants to continue the discussion for gameplay mechanics I recommend moving the discussion to one of these threads http://en.spaceengine.org/forum/14-369-1 or http://en.spaceengine.org/forum/14-415-1





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VilfateDate: Sunday, 08.11.2015, 06:28 | Message # 757
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Quote sinsforeal ()

Will accretion disk's count as a "light source"?

I am also very curious about this ;)
however, in my opinion, in a very far distance, it shouldn't be hard to treat the disks just like normal point sources.
===
Quote SpaceEngineer ()
Only some black holes will have accretion disks.


Could you tell me what this "selection" of black holes with/without accretion disks is based on, according to the system multiplicity of the black holes?
And are these effects going to be controlled by procedural+user customisable parameters, like in stellar coronae or rings?







Edited by Vilfate - Sunday, 08.11.2015, 06:31
 
RetsofDate: Monday, 09.11.2015, 00:28 | Message # 758
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Quote SpaceEngineer ()
Notice how sky become more and more blue and bright. Sky blueshift is fake, because the frame texture obviously doesn't have infrared data, but it looks very well.

I may be misunderstanding, but does this mean that blue/red-shifting is possible on ship warp effects now?
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Monday, 09.11.2015, 00:44 | Message # 759
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Quote Retsof ()
but does this mean that blue/red-shifting is possible on ship warp effects now?


It is entirely possible, but only if he adds the same rendering to the ship warps.

This sort of thing





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parameciumkidDate: Monday, 09.11.2015, 07:25 | Message # 760
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I like the idea behind the red-blue shifting on the black hole. It looks absolutely great on the wide-angle shot of the accretion disk. On the close-up, however, it looks a little tacky, with colors that seem a little too vivid to be realistic.
I'm sure you're already working on tweaking it, but that's my hopefully constructive feedback.





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SalvoDate: Monday, 09.11.2015, 10:06 | Message # 761
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I wish to see the new black holes in a video, it looks gorgeous. cry




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Kamil_CaderDate: Monday, 09.11.2015, 14:43 | Message # 762
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Quote parameciumkid ()
I like the idea behind the red-blue shifting on the black hole. It looks absolutely great on the wide-angle shot of the accretion disk. On the close-up, however, it looks a little tacky, with colors that seem a little too vivid to be realistic.
I'm sure you're already working on tweaking it, but that's my hopefully constructive feedback.


I think in reality accretion disc would be much brighter than that, and no background stars would be visible. SpaceEnginer just adjusted the graphics options for better visibility of featuers IMO.
 
InariusDate: Monday, 09.11.2015, 14:56 | Message # 763
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Quote
I think in reality accretion disc would be much brighter than that, and no background stars would be visible. SpaceEnginer just adjusted the graphics options for better visibility of featuers IMO.


I did't really know. I thought they were very visible, but more in X-ray and Gamma Ray than visible light ?
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Tuesday, 10.11.2015, 12:12 | Message # 764
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Quote parameciumkid ()
On the close-up, however, it looks a little tacky, with colors that seem a little too vivid to be realistic.

He already stated that it's not realistic, and can't be since SE does not contain infrared or ultraviolet image information, which would be needed for realistic colors.





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SpaceEngineerDate: Tuesday, 10.11.2015, 14:39 | Message # 765
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Accretion disk is indeed overwhelmingly bright. I made some computations using analythic model (alpha-disk model) for accretion disk around Sagittarius A* in the Milky Way center. Using it's mass of 4.2 million solar masses and realistic accretion rate (3 Earth masses per year), I derived this temperature profile:

max temperature at 4.3 Schwarzschild radii - 96,000K
temperautre at 1000 Schwarzschild radii, where SE rendering stops for now - 2600K (still too bright)
temperature at 3600 Schwarzschild radii - 1000K (so rendering radius in SE should be increased 4x times)

Matter at 96,000K have extremely high brightness. According to the Stefan-Bolzmann law, surface brightness is proportional to T4. So 96,000K is 80,000 times brighter than Sun's surface. It will be saturated to white in SE if exposure is more than 0.0001.

Screenshots here showing accretion disk around Sgr A* with different levels of exposure: 1, 0.01, 0.0001:







Temperature in accretion disk around stellar black hole with high accretion rate is even more extreme. For 5 solar mass black hole, eating 0.001 solar mass per year, it will be 330 million Kelvins at 4.3 Schwarzschild radii and 10 million Kelvins at 1000 Schwarzschild radii. Temperature falling down to 1000 Kelvins only at 200 million Schwarzschild radii, or 20 AU from the black hole. This means what stellar black hole's accretion disk can't be such cold, because it's outer edge lies much closer - defined by orbit of the secondary stellar companion, which feeding the black hole with its own matter.

This also means what SE cannot render accretion disks realistically, at least for now. SE can't render temperatures more than 100,000 K (all higher will have the same color and brightness) and can't render accretion disks of any radius (1000 Schwarzschild radii is limit for now). I am forced to use some cheats like smooth falloff of the disk's outer edge and limiting it's maximum temperature.

Attachments: 5994384.jpg(460Kb) · 9923954.jpg(198Kb) · 9121083.jpg(59Kb)





 
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