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Forum » SpaceEngine » Archive » Work progress - 0.9.7.2
Work progress - 0.9.7.2
midtskogenDate: Friday, 24.10.2014, 09:00 | Message # 691
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Quote Watsisname ()
Ah, yes, I should have recognized what you were asking and meant by 'relatively close'.

On the other hand, if you're so close to a black hole that relativity becomes an issue, I suspect that the tidal forces come into play. smile





NIL DIFFICILE VOLENTI
 
InariusDate: Friday, 24.10.2014, 09:37 | Message # 692
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Could you post a picture from a further point of view, or a different angle ? Or far can you see the accretion disk ?
 
WatsisnameDate: Friday, 24.10.2014, 13:50 | Message # 693
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Quote midtskogen ()
On the other hand, if you're so close to a black hole that relativity becomes an issue, I suspect that the tidal forces come into play.


Ok, that was relatively funny. smile

But in seriousness, you can get into relativistic regimes of gravitational field without having a problem from tidal forces. A small object at the event horizon of a supermassive black hole wouldn't even notice them. The cool way of thinking of tidal forces is that they are a direct manifestation of space-time curvature. You don't detect curvature on sufficiently small scales, and curvature at an event horizon also decreases as the mass of the hole increases.





 
spacerDate: Friday, 24.10.2014, 15:15 | Message # 694
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looks like the black hole from the movie INTERSTELLAR smile biggrin
http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media....le_.png





"we began as wanderers, and we are wanderers still"
-carl sagan

-space engine photographer
 
VoekoevakaDate: Friday, 24.10.2014, 17:34 | Message # 695
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Wonderful !

Will them have a lens flare when seen from far ? I think this kind of objects can e very bright.





Want some music of mine ? Please go here !

 
FastFourierTransformDate: Friday, 24.10.2014, 21:00 | Message # 696
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Quote spacer ()
looks like the black hole from the movie INTERSTELLAR


In fact what SpaceEngineer has done is even more realistic. Here we are talking about thin disks. In this case the clumps of gas and dust presented in the movie will, probably, be tidally disrupted in such a level that we can consider the disk a totally homogeneus glowing plasma without any turbulent features (but maybe magnetic phenomena would create them).

What does not appear in Vladimir's new feature and Interstellar is the doppler shift due to extreme high velocities of the disk and gravitational shift produced by the strong curvature where the material accretes:



I want to suggest, for further improving of this model, to read the publications made by the Event Horizon Telescope (a world wide array of radio telescopes to make detail images of sub-event horizon scale features on black holes). The most studied black hole for the EHT is Sagitarius A* (the one in the center of our galaxy) because his event horizon has the biggest angular diameter as seen from Earth.

You will find accurate depictions of thin disks like in SpaceEngine (incredibly accurate) with formulaes for the ligh flux and doppler shift maping (click in the next 3 images to see the formulaes). There is a lot of information for bigger disks (that present flares, beautifull patterns and strange structures), and for the amazing light distortions that we can find when we see the black hole at this resolution. Here I throw some images of the papers listed to show how interesting can be this issue and how complex can become the future varieties of accretion disks around black holes on Space Engine:





Here you have also two links raleted to the matter of how to implement this complex relativistic effects with computers:
First Link turbulences on the disk would look amazing
Second link

Quote Voekoevaka ()
Will them have a lens flare when seen from far ? I think this kind of objects can e very bright.

Yes, in fact, the accretion disks of black holes can become one of the brightest objects of the universe. I'm also with the idea of having amazing flares for this.
I don't know if I'm correct but maybe there is a radial gradient of temperatures and if the thin plasma-like disk is like a black body it shoud show even a bit of bright blue in the vicinities of the even horizon (or maybe the termal radiation effect is smaller than the contrary effect of the gravitational redshift at those distances)

Huge work SpaceEngineer. I'm amazed of all you have done by now in all this years. Let's continue with the awesomeness. You are our Kip Thorne!! I bet Space Enigne would be a million times more accurate than Interestellar's black holes smile


Edited by FastFourierTransform - Friday, 24.10.2014, 21:17
 
BetelgeuzeDate: Friday, 24.10.2014, 21:25 | Message # 697
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will there new black holes with jets,disk,dust

 
WatsisnameDate: Friday, 24.10.2014, 23:00 | Message # 698
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FastFourierTransform, awesome material and post, thank you for pulling that stuff up. smile

Betelgeuze, yes, it is on the TODO list.





 
FastFourierTransformDate: Saturday, 25.10.2014, 09:55 | Message # 699
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Quote Watsisname ()
thank you for pulling that stuff up

Thank you smile I apreciate that
 
SpaceEngineerDate: Saturday, 25.10.2014, 11:05 | Message # 700
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Quote FastFourierTransform ()
What does not appear in Vladimir's new feature and Interstellar is the doppler shift due to extreme high velocities of the disk and gravitational shift produced by the strong curvature where the material accretes:


Actually it is. Look carefully:





Left side of the disk is hotter: more bright and more blue. This is due to the Doppler shift. For the black body spectrum it works exactly like increasing of the temperature.

Velocity (more precisely, blueshift):



Flux:


Attachments: 4801233.jpg(248Kb) · 6859100.jpg(129Kb)





 
BetelgeuzeDate: Saturday, 25.10.2014, 11:18 | Message # 701
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SpaceEngineer WOW! what name of this black hole?
 
FastFourierTransformDate: Saturday, 25.10.2014, 11:42 | Message # 702
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Quote SpaceEngineer ()
Actually it is. Look carefully


WWWoooooww. Okay, you are totally right smile

I understand that velocity doppler effect plus the gravitational redshift compensate in some places so there is not actual blue anywhere. But what about the effect of the increasing temperature at the inner parts of the disk (if thats right), I mean, It wouldn't apper something bluish in some places?

Keep working with this, It is awesome, and is a great great job. Thank you so much
 
SpaceEngineerDate: Saturday, 25.10.2014, 12:07 | Message # 703
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Quote Betelgeuze ()
SpaceEngineer WOW! what name of this black hole?

This is 0.972

Quote FastFourierTransform ()
But what about the effect of the increasing temperature at the inner parts of the disk


Attachments: 6933605.jpg(203Kb)





 
FastFourierTransformDate: Saturday, 25.10.2014, 12:19 | Message # 704
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I understand that there are no bluish parts in the disk then biggrin

Ok, I can't increase your reputation in the next 3 days, but I totally will do.
You are the master. Keep us informed. Every picture you upload is something we automatically like.

One more thing! I know this is only for thin plasma-like disks in the close vicinities of black holes (I suppose that in far future versions you will add accreation disks with different sizes and thikness and with gas and dust, and with differenciated parts and turbulences and with spiralling parts or something) but it would be awesome to have some dust sprites in the outer edge of the disk you have created (like a transition to the future dust disk part that has to be father from that glowing plasma-gas).
 
BetelgeuzeDate: Saturday, 25.10.2014, 12:36 | Message # 705
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SpaceEngineer this supermassive black hole? or normal black hole?

Edited by Betelgeuze - Saturday, 25.10.2014, 12:37
 
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