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Forum » SpaceEngine » Archive » Work progress 0.9.7.1
Work progress 0.9.7.1
NevokronDate: Friday, 13.12.2013, 12:24 | Message # 526
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Quote SpaceEngineer ()
The only unresolved problem is changing of procedural objects names (RS 8404-...) after changing the generator or even after adding/removing of catalog objects. Do you remember that in old versions of SE procedural stars in Milky Way had names starting from RS 8404-...? But now they are RS 8403-... because of removal of duplicate of one galaxy. That names do not affect on planetary system generation, because seed is based on coordinates, not a name (like in more old versions). But changing of names will destroy the database. For real galaxies we may use alternate names: replace "RS 8404-768-xxx" with "Milky Way 768-xxx", but this will not work for procedural galaxies, which have procedural number themselves.


I may be completely out of place here, because I don't know how the program is made, but wouldn't it be possible, in order to avoid 'interference' with the procedural names, to have an additional "field" with the optional proper name of the galaxy? This would usually be left empty and doesn't take place in the procedural generation, but can be filled by the 'discoverer' with any name.
 
JCandeiasDate: Friday, 13.12.2013, 18:17 | Message # 527
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Ah, sweet. This interests me.

Quote SpaceEngineer ()
Yes I have. At some point, I move all generation code (including shaders) into a library. Then, if I would like to change something in the generation code, I will copy/paste the library, rename it and do changes there. All old generation libraries will stay here forever. In save files (locations) and on the server database, the library version number will be stored. So if engine tries to generate a system that is already in the database, a version of library will be taken and it will be generated with that library.


Wouldn't that be taxing on memory, though? In fact most, if not all, the crashes I have with the program derive from memory overflows, when there's simply too much stuff loaded. That and animated stuff (which I haven't yet established if has impact on memory use or not), which turns down FPS to a crawl and then crashes the program, particularly if I try to move around.

(SE needs some way to unload stuff once a threshold is reached, I think. And also a switch to turn off animations.)

Also, how will it work with catalogue stuff? Our own systems, systems people like and save to use later, that kind of stuff. Will we have some sort of a version tag in catalogues, to tell the program to load the appropriate library and thus provide stability to the procedural part of the generation?

Quote SpaceEngineer ()
The only unresolved problem is changing of procedural objects names (RS 8404-...) after changing the generator or even after adding/removing of catalog objects. Do you remember that in old versions of SE procedural stars in Milky Way had names starting from RS 8404-...? But now they are RS 8403-... because of removal of duplicate of one galaxy. That names do not affect on planetary system generation, because seed is based on coordinates, not a name (like in more old versions). But changing of names will destroy the database. For real galaxies we may use alternate names: replace "RS 8404-768-xxx" with "Milky Way 768-xxx", but this will not work for procedural galaxies, which have procedural number themselves.


Couldn't you base the galactical nomenclature also in (broad) coordinates, not serial numbering? Either primarily or as an alternative? That way even if you change everything in galactical generation you'll always have the old systems linked with a given position in the universe, which I guess would be enough for them to generate... even if they end up in intergalactic space if their old procedural galaxy vanishes in the meanwhile. You'd probably need to use alphanumeric codes for that, not just numerical ones (widens the number of possible permutations) but I suppose it might work, no?





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Edited by JCandeias - Friday, 13.12.2013, 19:39
 
SpaceEngineerDate: Saturday, 14.12.2013, 07:06 | Message # 528
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Quote JCandeias ()
Wouldn't that be taxing on memory, though?

No. It just increase the size of exe file, no more. Photoshop have 60+ Mb exe.

Quote JCandeias ()
(SE needs some way to unload stuff once a threshold is reached, I think. And also a switch to turn off animations.)

SE do this of course. Crashes are just some bugs in the code that I can't catch. Debugging such large program is not easy.

Quote JCandeias ()
And also a switch to turn off animations.)

What? What are you talking about?

Quote JCandeias ()
Also, how will it work with catalogue stuff? Our own systems, systems people like and save to use later, that kind of stuff. Will we have some sort of a version tag in catalogues, to tell the program to load the appropriate library and thus provide stability to the procedural part of the generation?

Catalog stuff do not affect of procedural stuff, except catalog galaxies that have procedural stuff.

Quote JCandeias ()
Couldn't you base the galactical nomenclature also in (broad) coordinates, not serial numbering? Either primarily or as an alternative? That way even if you change everything in galactical generation you'll always have the old systems linked with a given position in the universe, which I guess would be enough for them to generate... even if they end up in intergalactic space if their old procedural galaxy vanishes in the meanwhile. You'd probably need to use alphanumeric codes for that, not just numerical ones (widens the number of possible permutations) but I suppose it might work, no?

Maybe. I need some hash function that will compute galaxy number based on coordinates and vise versa.





 
SpaceEngineerDate: Saturday, 14.12.2013, 19:54 | Message # 529
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Changelog on the first page is updated.




 
JCandeiasDate: Saturday, 14.12.2013, 20:54 | Message # 530
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Quote SpaceEngineer ()
Quote JCandeias ()
And also a switch to turn off animations.)

What? What are you talking about?


After writing that I thought further and I came to the conclusion that it doesn't have anything to do with animations per se: crashes also occur when I have the time stopped, and stopping time stops animations. So that switch would have no use. It's true, thugh, that the likelyhood of the program crawling and then crashing increases quite a bit if I have onscreen stuff that moves and/or changes, such as auroras, cometary and evaporating planets' tales, and even multiple layers of clouds.

Quote SpaceEngineer ()
Quote JCandeias ()
Also, how will it work with catalogue stuff? Our own systems, systems people like and save to use later, that kind of stuff. Will we have some sort of a version tag in catalogues, to tell the program to load the appropriate library and thus provide stability to the procedural part of the generation?

Catalog stuff do not affect of procedural stuff, except catalog galaxies that have procedural stuff.


Hm... I think what I had in mind didn't come across. So here's an example to make it clear.

Say I create my own systems with all their contents. Planets, moons, asteroids, the works. The sc files allow me to set a number of parameters, dealing with the appearence of those planets, etc., but the specifics of where exactly a given crater, mountain or ocean will appear are procedurally generated. If procedural stuff changes between versions of the engine, so will the surface features of the bodies we build up. What I was asking was if we'd have a way to keep these features stable between versions, like a version tag to add to the bodies' definitions in the sc files.

This, by the way, would probably also come handy for when you add procedural details to mapped worlds.

Quote SpaceEngineer ()
Maybe. I need some hash function that will compute galaxy number based on coordinates and vise versa.


Прекрасно! Glad to have been helpful. smile





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ZatSoloDate: Sunday, 15.12.2013, 00:39 | Message # 531
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Quote SpaceEngineer ()
Changelog on the first page is updated.




wink

Attachments: 3239775.png(79Kb)


Edited by ZatSolo - Sunday, 15.12.2013, 00:40
 
SpaceEngineerDate: Sunday, 15.12.2013, 01:47 | Message # 532
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Quote JCandeias ()
to keep these features stable between versions, like a version tag to add to the bodies' definitions in the sc files.

Of course, in exactly that way.





 
DarkcloakDate: Sunday, 15.12.2013, 03:57 | Message # 533
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The updated changelog...yes...(I'm actually too tired to type anything else at the moment)..other than thank you! biggrin Spectacular stuff!
 
JCandeiasDate: Sunday, 15.12.2013, 15:21 | Message # 534
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Quote SpaceEngineer ()
Of course, in exactly that way.


You may colour me happy. smile





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SpaceEngineerDate: Wednesday, 18.12.2013, 16:50 | Message # 535
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New warp bubble effect:





Space-time is compressed in front of a ship (blackhole-like metrics) and expanded after a ship (whitehole-like metrics). The ship itself stay inside the bubble in a flat space-time.

Attachments: 7906661.jpg(289Kb) · 9203096.jpg(288Kb)





 
Billy_MayesDate: Wednesday, 18.12.2013, 17:02 | Message # 536
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Does this always happen, even if it's just staying still? If so, is there a way to disable this?




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DoctorOfSpaceDate: Wednesday, 18.12.2013, 19:41 | Message # 537
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Quote Billy_Mayes ()
Does this always happen, even if it's just staying still?


This effect only happens when you turn on the drive with the "H" key. You can always disable it by removing the ship warp shader.

Quote SpaceEngineer ()
Space-time is compressed in front of a ship (blackhole-like metrics) and expanded after a ship (whitehole-like metrics). The ship itself stay inside the bubble in a flat space-time.


I notice in your screens the ship is viewed from the same angle. While messing with the shader myself I was able to get an effect similar to this but it would flip with the view where viewing the right side would show it properly and viewing the left would show it flipped. Did you fix that issue and create two views?





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SpaceEngineerDate: Wednesday, 18.12.2013, 20:14 | Message # 538
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Quote DoctorOfSpace ()
I notice in your screens the ship is viewed from the same angle. While messing with the shader myself I was able to get an effect similar to this but it would flip with the view where viewing the right side would show it properly and viewing the left would show it flipped. Did you fix that issue and create two views?


I add a new uniform to the shader for ship orientation relative to the screen.





 
Billy_MayesDate: Wednesday, 18.12.2013, 20:30 | Message # 539
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Quote DoctorOfSpace ()

This effect only happens when you turn on the drive with the "H" key. You can always disable it by removing the ship warp shader.


Okay, thanks for answering. smile





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neutronium76Date: Wednesday, 18.12.2013, 21:43 | Message # 540
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Quote SpaceEngineer ()
New warp bubble effect:






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PC2:Core2Quad X9770@3.2GHz, 2 cores/4 threads 4GB DDR2 RAM@1GHz, GTX-285 GPU 1GB VRAM(DDR3)@1.24GHz, OS:WinVistax64SP2
 
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