Русский New site

Advanced search

[ New messages · Forum rules · Members ]
Page 22 of 23«1220212223»
Forum » SpaceEngine » Off-topic Discussions » Education and the Future of Nations (The importance of education and its effect on world nations)
Education and the Future of Nations
HarbingerDawnDate: Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 03:31 | Message # 316
Cosmic Curator
Group: Administrators
United States
Messages: 8714
Status: Offline
Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
Let the education system dig its own grave. Technology will make it irrelevant in time.

I hope you can see the problem with that statement. If the education system fails, then the technology will never be developed, or if it is no one will have the knowledge or wisdom to integrate it properly into society.

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - more important that insuring good education for all. It is the foundation for everything society does, and is essential for improving it. Your near-religious faith in technology seems to make you of the mind that no issues like this matter, because they won't exist forever, and that concerns me.





All forum users, please read this!
My SE mods and addons
Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, GTX 970 3584 MB VRAM
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 03:42 | Message # 317
Galaxy Architect
Group: Global Moderators
Pirate
Messages: 3600
Status: Offline
The current system is already developing methods of basically downloading information into the brain. We are a few years off from consumer grade models being developed. Such devices won't replace all forms of education at first, but it will replace things like prerequisite courses. What you call near religious faith, I call optimism about the direction of technology based on historical adoptions of technology. The very fact that I am posting this from a phone, which was impossible less than 10 years ago, supports the idea that technology will inevitably change the system.

The system is already changing to adapt to new technologies, like the internet and advances in portable computing. If the cheaper and better alternative is to simply download information then you can expect people to move towards that system.





Intel Core i7-5820K 4.2GHz 6-Core Processor
G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory
EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC 6GB
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 04:24 | Message # 318
Cosmic Curator
Group: Administrators
United States
Messages: 8714
Status: Offline
Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
The current system is already developing methods of basically downloading information into the brain. We are a few years off from consumer grade models being developed. Such devices won't replace all forms of education at first, but it will replace things like prerequisite courses.

This is not what education should be about; it is this very philosophy that is at the root of many of the problems the education system today faces. They focus on facts and information, and skip over the important things, such as fostering wonder, fascination, and interest about the world in students, and teaching people how to reason, investigate, and think critically. Those are abilities that must be taught and developed, and they cannot be downloaded into your brain from a machine.

Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
We are a few years off from consumer grade models being developed. Such devices won't replace all forms of education at first, but it will replace things like prerequisite courses.

I bet you every bit of money that you have that that won't happen within a decade.





All forum users, please read this!
My SE mods and addons
Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, GTX 970 3584 MB VRAM


Edited by HarbingerDawn - Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 04:25
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 04:42 | Message # 319
Galaxy Architect
Group: Global Moderators
Pirate
Messages: 3600
Status: Offline
http://m.popsci.com/technol....eaching

That's from 2011. The technology only faces a few engineering issues which are already being worked on.

Quote (HarbingerDawn)
This is not what education should be about; it is this very philosophy that is at the root of many of the problems the education system today faces. They focus on facts and information, and skip over the important things, such as fostering wonder, fascination, and interest about the world in students, and teaching people how to reason, investigate, and think critically. Those are abilities that must be taught and developed, and they cannot be downloaded into your brain from a machine.


Actually critical thinking skills are nothing mystical and like any information they can be copied and downloaded. We are moving into a future where our minds will be our own to shape as we like.





Intel Core i7-5820K 4.2GHz 6-Core Processor
G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory
EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC 6GB
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 04:46 | Message # 320
Cosmic Curator
Group: Administrators
United States
Messages: 8714
Status: Offline
Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
Actually critical thinking skills are nothing mystical and like any information they can be copied and downloaded.

I'm not sure it would be as easy to do that as it would be to install information such as a list of names, but I know it's possible. But if we do things the way you're suggesting then all we're doing is programming people, and I'm not sure that's the right way to go. I agree it can be potentially very beneficial, but only if used up to a certain point.





All forum users, please read this!
My SE mods and addons
Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, GTX 970 3584 MB VRAM
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 05:07 | Message # 321
Galaxy Architect
Group: Global Moderators
Pirate
Messages: 3600
Status: Offline
Things that are programed tend to do the function they are programed for better than something that is not programed to do that function. And for right now, unlike a computer, humans have a mind of their own to choose what to do with the information they are given. One could expect to see those who would simply live by what they download and those who would use what they have downloaded to build upon it. Then as more knowledge is gained that could be shared fairly quickly through such a system.

In some ways it is similar to what we have now in terms of gaining knowledge and using it. This would simply remove the middle man and speed up the process.

This won't happen over night but it is happening. The modern education system is already showing signs that it ccannot keep up with the rate of change.





Intel Core i7-5820K 4.2GHz 6-Core Processor
G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory
EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC 6GB
 
DisasterpieceDate: Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 07:17 | Message # 322
World Builder
Group: Users
United States
Messages: 640
Status: Offline
I just got an idea that I will post here so you guys can shoot it full of holes. biggrin

We make starships that are just huge hard drives and storage containers and send them into an orbit that is in the Oort cloud. It will keep records of history, science, and other things that can be stored as data and it will keep samples of DNA, technology and other tangible items. So when we destroy ourselves, we have access to our technology, so we can skip clubs and rocks and go straight machine guns, bombs and chainsaws. biggrin biggrin YAY!





I play teh spase engien
 
midtskogenDate: Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 07:34 | Message # 323
Star Engineer
Group: Users
Norway
Messages: 1672
Status: Offline
Quote (Inarius)
If you are in the 10% of the upper class (or, of the "2%" gifted students) you will probably have some difficulties...

Yes and no. If you're in the upper 2%, you are also smart enough to know it and to make use of it by yourself. It's not really the duty of society to make sure that everybody will make full use of their capabilities and to realise everybody's potential. But it is a good investment for society to aim in that general direction.





NIL DIFFICILE VOLENTI
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 08:01 | Message # 324
Cosmic Curator
Group: Administrators
United States
Messages: 8714
Status: Offline
Quote (midtskogen)
If you're in the upper 2%, you are also smart enough to know it and to make use of it by yourself.

I am in the upper 2%, and I did very poorly in school, partly for the reasons Inarius was alluding to, and partly due to other factors beyond my control. Contrary to what most people think, intelligence by itself is useless.





All forum users, please read this!
My SE mods and addons
Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, GTX 970 3584 MB VRAM
 
midtskogenDate: Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 09:29 | Message # 325
Star Engineer
Group: Users
Norway
Messages: 1672
Status: Offline
Quote (HarbingerDawn)
Contrary to what most people think, intelligence by itself is useless.

Intelligence, at least the way people like Mensa measure it, seems to me mainly to be how quickly the mind can understand and solve problems or abstract ideas. Which is extremely useful in almost anything you do. It's not determination or the ability to get things done, but if you have the determination, intelligence will make everything much easier. So, useless as it is useless for bicycling to have strong legs if you don't even get on the bike or people keep telling you that you shouldn't ride, but if get a small push and you do ride, you'll easily outrun others.





NIL DIFFICILE VOLENTI
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 10:05 | Message # 326
Cosmic Curator
Group: Administrators
United States
Messages: 8714
Status: Offline
Quote (midtskogen)
So, useless as it is useless for bicycling to have strong legs if you don't even get on the bike

More like useless as it is useless for bicycling to have strong legs if you have a chronic balancing problem. Multiple traits are required to use the bicycle. Having one very strong trait means nothing if any of the other necessary traits are absent. This is true for anything in life, and there are some traits which are required to accomplish virtually anything. If you lack these, then you will accomplish nothing in life, regardless of how strong some of your other traits might be.





All forum users, please read this!
My SE mods and addons
Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, GTX 970 3584 MB VRAM


Edited by HarbingerDawn - Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 10:07
 
midtskogenDate: Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 12:26 | Message # 327
Star Engineer
Group: Users
Norway
Messages: 1672
Status: Offline
Quote (HarbingerDawn)
Having one very strong trait means nothing if any of the other necessary traits are absent.

I don't deny that, but intelligence is an exceptionally versatile trait, since it can be used to find new solutions and in some cases circumvent the lack of other traits. Of course, if one factor is unescapably 0, the product is always 0.





NIL DIFFICILE VOLENTI
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 19:10 | Message # 328
Cosmic Curator
Group: Administrators
United States
Messages: 8714
Status: Offline
Quote (midtskogen)
I don't deny that, but intelligence is an exceptionally versatile trait, since it can be used to find new solutions and in some cases circumvent the lack of other traits.

True. But in very rare cases it can still be rendered useless, because...

Quote (midtskogen)
Of course, if one factor is unescapably 0, the product is always 0.





All forum users, please read this!
My SE mods and addons
Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, GTX 970 3584 MB VRAM
 
werdnaforeverDate: Tuesday, 27.08.2013, 19:48 | Message # 329
World Builder
Group: Users
Pirate
Messages: 897
Status: Offline
Quote (HarbingerDawn)
I was the same way. Any kind of math I took before calculus I got easily. But calculus I couldn't get intuitively, at least beyond the easiest parts of it. What I don't understand is why it's a required course at universities. When are you ever going to need to know calculus? It's only applicable to a narrow range of job specializations. If you're planning on becoming a history or language major then it's a waste of time, and it could serve to keep an otherwise very qualified person out of their career if completing calculus courses is a graduation requirement. This is one problem I have with the system of education we have.

It's not easy- I'm preparing for a final right now. But it's an absolute must for things like physics and engineering. IMHO, once you get past the basics it's not that much different from learning memorizing different kinds of problems and how to solve them- just like any other kind of mathematics.

It's important to be well rounded. There were things during high and middle school I was taught that I hated, and saw no purpose for, but I'm often surprised at how useful they've become. Life is full of surprises.

Quote (midtskogen)
Intelligence, at least the way people like Mensa measure it, seems to me mainly to be how quickly the mind can understand and solve problems or abstract ideas. Which is extremely useful in almost anything you do. It's not determination or the ability to get things done, but if you have the determination, intelligence will make everything much easier. So, useless as it is useless for bicycling to have strong legs if you don't even get on the bike or people keep telling you that you shouldn't ride, but if get a small push and you do ride, you'll easily outrun others.


Cognitive ability comes in various forms... how fast you solve problems, how well you remember things, how well you process visual or auditory information, your short term memory. There's also how well you solve problems- how creative you can be.

Also, my IQ is around 121 (I had a recent neurological battery) (I'm 20. There, I said it.) It used to be around the 140s when I was little but they have been moving results closer to the mean over the years- so it's not like I've gotten dumber, I suppose. I hope. wacko If I have, maybe I can blame some of it on stupid consumerism, TV, and American society as a whole- there's so much mind pollution out there.
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Saturday, 07.09.2013, 20:35 | Message # 330
Cosmic Curator
Group: Administrators
United States
Messages: 8714
Status: Offline
[Continued from here]

Quote (Enki)
Also, the American scientists who use metric are government scientists and apparently they've crashed a few spacecraft because of confusion of measurements between systems.

If by "a few" one mean "one", then yes, and it was not the fault of the "government scientists", it was the fault of one of the subcontractors, Lockheed Martin, which failed to adhere to the specified system of units in the thruster performance data they submitted. This error went unnoticed, and that caused the crash. It has not happened since then because must stricter oversight and enforcement has been implemented.

Quote (Enki)
What will future civilizations think when they look at us and cannot tell who did what? They will have to assume we were all the same culture if a scientific report in Germany and one from this American Federation are in a WorldWideBasic language and in SI Units so that nothing can distinguish whose achievements are whose.

The idea that future historians will judge our current civilization and cultures solely by the language and units used in scientific publications is beyond absurd. And anyway, the whole nationalistic concept of "Germans did this!" and "Americans did this!" has caused many wars in the past while contributing nearly nothing to the good of the world. I would much rather we lose some of our national identities if it means forging a new and stronger identity as one people: humans. When historians look back, I hope they don't wonder what group of people did what (beyond the recognition of individuals and so forth), and can acknowledge that it was accomplished by humanity.

And contrary to what you and some others may think, that would not mean the end of cultural heterogeneity.

Quote (Enki)
The Confederate States of America). But try saying this United States is. That is Ebonics, not proper English. Now think of the sentence, "The United States is the wealthiest country in the world," and see how unnoticed this has gone.

In this case, the United States is a short form of the United States of America, which is a single collective entity, and is therefore properly referred to using singular language.

Quote (Enki)
You're right. There is no such country. A federation is not a country, it is a collection of states

I was using the word "country" in its general use, synonymous with the general use of "nation", which is to refer to a sovereign state or in some cases non-sovereign but extremely autonomous entities.

The United States of America is indeed a federation, as are numerous other countries. That does not grant you the power to refer to it by a totally different name and not be incorrect.

Concerning my initial statement, let me put it another way: there is no legally recognized governing entity or collection thereof of any kind called the American Federation.

Quote (Enki)
I've logged weeks of research into the history of these United States. I am forced to conclude that we are federated states with a federal government touted as supreme.

The authority of the federal government is the defining characteristic of a federation... if it lacks that then it's a confederation. Anyway, that's not a great insight and does not require study. The USA is a collection of states united in a federal system, and aside from that just being plainly obvious, it's something that everyone is taught in school! Everyone in this country should know that information!

Quote (Enki)
its our mathematical language, and it defines us, makes us unique

That is not the sole thing which makes us unique, nor is it a good thing. What if there were one disease in the world for which we had no cure, and was unique in that it was the only disease that was still harmful. Should we abstain from trying to develop a cure just so we could maintain that uniqueness?

Anyway, our mathematical language is base 10 mathematics, not US Customary units, and so if you really want to aid in bolstering that you'd argue for using a system of units which is also based on powers of 10, to better conform with our overall mathematical "language".

Quote (Enki)
I do not believe a nation should so easy throw its culture away, and America should not throw away is system of measurement to meet the standard of any state or federation on the planet.

It's not about meeting other people's standards. It's about making sense. The current system is in every way stupid and senseless. The metric system is none of those things. We should adopt it on account of the fact that it MAKES SENSE. The fact that every major world power EXCEPT the USA has adopted it should speak very loudly to the effect that there's something going for it, otherwise it wouldn't have been adopted so ubiquitously.

And if you think that our system of units is the backbone of or a large part of our culture, then I would say that we then have no culture to speak of and would be losing nothing by getting rid of it. (Of course, I disagree with that entirely).

Aside from that, you seem to forget that culture is a constantly evolving thing. It never stays the same. You can't stop elements of a culture from disappearing any more than you can stop new elements of a culture from appearing. And why would you want to? In my opinion it is far better to try to cause positive change than it is to try to prevent change altogether, because in the latter endeavor you will always fail, and even if you did not you would gain nothing with your success.

Quote (Enki)
If we make our units uniform worldwide, then we must make our language uniform and so on.

That is a non sequitur. I think we SHOULD do that, but if we have a uniform system of units it does not necessarily follow that we would also need a uniform language. Look at the portion of the world using SI units (i.e. pretty much all of it). They have been using said units for years and still have an astounding diversity in language and culture, and what changes there have been to those things can be traced to causes unrelated to metrication.

Quote (Enki)
This demonstrates the validity of my earlier point that we are not a country, because people were willing to go to war over whether or not we are.

Country is not synonymous with nation in the way you were using the terms there, so this whole quote is nonsensical. Putting that aside however, it still makes no sense because you seem to be saying that if someone disagrees with whether something is true then it becomes not true. This is patently false.





All forum users, please read this!
My SE mods and addons
Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, GTX 970 3584 MB VRAM
 
Forum » SpaceEngine » Off-topic Discussions » Education and the Future of Nations (The importance of education and its effect on world nations)
Page 22 of 23«1220212223»
Search: