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Forum » SpaceEngine » Off-topic Discussions » The Future of Humanity & Intelligent life in the universe
The Future of Humanity & Intelligent life in the universe
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 16:51 | Message # 16
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Even the old series?


Yeah of course. I mean you don't have to for the new series but its nice background to get where the writers based their work from.

Quote (Antza2)
That would be awesome. You'd see all that humanity would develop in that time and you'd be able to traverse the stars


Even if by mid century we have nanobots and immortal bodies and can survive extreme environments I still wouldn't know what to do with all that time.

I can imagine living for a thousand or so years, but millions, billions, or trillions would be insane. I can see doing great things with that time but plenty of blank times with nothing to do but wait. Then again you could use that time to live in cyberspace or send yourself out into space.

The key thing is you would be alive and not dead. With death you've got nothing.





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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 16:53
 
Antza2Date: Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 17:10 | Message # 17
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Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
Yeah of course. I mean you don't have to for the new series but its nice background to get where the writers based their work from.

I tried watching some of the Tom Baker era episodes, but got tired of them fast.

Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
Even if by mid century we have nanobots and immortal bodies and can survive extreme environments I still wouldn't know what to do with all that time.


I think life presents challenges as you go on. Maybe you could become a scientist? That way you would never get to a point where you would't have anything left to discover wink





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Edited by Antza2 - Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 17:11
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 17:13 | Message # 18
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you would never get to a point where you would't have anything to discover


Bad news is you would run into a wall of knowledge. You would inevitably get to a point where you don't have enough storage space to store all known information because the amount of matter required to store all information would be so large it's mass would collapse space into a black hole.

Quote (Antza2)
I tried watching some of the Tom Baker era episodes, but got tired of them fast.


The really old stuff is cheesy but at times really good.





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Antza2Date: Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 17:21 | Message # 19
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Bad news is you would run into a wall of knowledge. You would inevitably get to a point where you don't have enough storage space to store all known information because the amount of matter required to store all information would be so large it's mass would collapse space into a black hole.

This is where the hive mind comes into play. If we assume the quantum-entanglement communication is possible, we could store our collective memories in a huge, planet sized computer, thus avoiding the limitations of our feeble brain.





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Edited by Antza2 - Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 17:22
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 17:29 | Message # 20
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This is where the hive mind comes into play.


You can either attempt to force a hive mind like the Borg or have a hive mind like we have today but better. Basically using a machine-human species that can unlink itself or link itself to the massive neural network. The most efficient way of doing this is like the Borg but I think the most beneficial way would be to respect one units individuality and creativity.

Quote (Antza2)
we could store our collective memories in a huge, planet sized computer.


Don't need quantum entanglement to do this. However you still run into a limit on the amount of information that can be stored on matter until you can no longer store anymore.

Quote (Antza2)
Thus avoiding the limitations of our feeble brain.


This is less about brain limitations or planet sized computers.

Inevitably you will run into a limit on how much information you can store on matter, even if you get 1 bit per atom. If you want to store all data in the universe you would need that much matter and you would collapse that region of space into a black hole because of all the mass. There just wouldn't be a computer capable of storing all that information.

However the good news is if you have your entire body encoding data like that you could have memory capable of spanning a few hundred billion years or so. That is still assuming its possible to encode 1 bit per atom.





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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 17:32
 
Antza2Date: Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 17:37 | Message # 21
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Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
You can either attempt to force a hive mind like the Borg or have a hive mind like we have today but better. Basically using a machine-human species that can unlink itself or link itself to the massive neural network. The most efficient way of doing this is like the Borg but I think the most beneficial way would be to respect one units individuality and creativity.

I'm not familiar with the Borg, since i don't watch Star Trek, but this is what i meant:
Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
a machine-human species that can unlink itself or link itself to the massive neural network.


Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
This is less about brain limitations or planet sized computers.

Inevitably you will run into a limit on how much information you can store on matter, even if you get 1 bit per atom. If you want to store all data in the universe you would need that much matter and you would collapse that region of space into a black hole because of all the mass. There just wouldn't be a computer capable of storing all that information.

However the good news is if you have your entire body encoding data like that you could have memory capable of spanning a few hundred billion years. That is still assuming its possible to encode 1 bit per atom.


I get what you mean, but since there is much useless information in the universe, I think we can store the important stuff and philter the useless stuff out.





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DoctorOfSpaceDate: Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 17:42 | Message # 22
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I'm not familiar with the Borg, since i don't watch Star Trek, but this is what i meant:


The Borg are basically an imperialistic dictatorship hive mind with one central queen who is the culmination of the minds. They find advanced civilizations and assimilate them into the hive and take in their information. There are no individuals.

Quote (Antza2)
I get what you mean, but since there is much useless information in the universe, I think we can store the important stuff and philter the useless stuff out.


That all depends on what you mean by useless information. All things have either objective or subjective meaning. What has meaning to one individual or culture may not have meaning to another. However that information is still highly valuable as a cultural and historical reference.

Basically no information is truly insignificant.





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Antza2Date: Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 17:53 | Message # 23
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Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
The Borg are basically an imperialistic dictatorship hive mind with one central queen who is the culmination of the minds. They find advanced civilizations and assimilate them into the hive and take in their information. There are no individuals.

Sounds cool cool
Last time (and only time) I watched Star Trek I remember seeing a bloke called Kirk flying with around the universe with a pointy-eared guy called Spock (i think. It was a long time ago.) in a silly looking space ship.

Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
asically no information is truly insignificant.

True, but I think that an advanced race of Machine-Humans would't need the information on what is the best kind of rock to crack walnuts with (for example). biggrin





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VoekoevakaDate: Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 17:58 | Message # 24
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Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
You will still die..... but perhaps not for billions or trillions of years.

I don't think the human mind can bear such a long time. So much memories, so much emotions are tiring. And with time, a such long life could be boring.

What about placing a computer in our brain that help we storing memory, doing void..?
In my opinion, it is making ourselves computers, and losing our humanity.

About the "hive-mind" : I fear that the humanity will feel lonely. Being together and having divergent opinions make us evolve, and give us a unique culture. I feel that the major progress to do is in education, and the important is to build a "bright" future.





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DoctorOfSpaceDate: Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 17:59 | Message # 25
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Quote (Antza2)
in a silly looking space ship.


Even though the design is impractical, I loved the Constellation ship. Just something about it that looked unique.

Quote (Antza2)
Machine-Humans would't need the information on what is the best kind of rock to crack walnuts with (for example).


Well thats rudimentary information. The best means to cover such tings would be an encompassing understanding of physics. Which by the way we have today, just don't have the brains to do the mathematics on cue.

If you could just look at the nut and scan the environment for a rock then do the math behind the required velocity you don't need to store the information on anything besides the base mathematics. This base information could cover anything from the size of small rocks up to entire planets and stars.

However this is not what I meant by information.

Quote (Voekoevaka)
I don't think the human mind can bear such a long time.


Machine minds with far superior brains and potential most likely could.

Quote (Voekoevaka)
What about placing a computer in our brain that help we storing memory, doing void..?


Why place a computer inside when you can actually change the brain into one?
Basically replace neuron by neuron with machine parts.


You don't die on your way to becoming synthetic.

Quote (Voekoevaka)
In my opinion, it is making ourselves computers, and losing our humanity.


No not at all. If you think of what technology is it is simply an extension of our current senses. By combining ourselves with our technology we ENHANCE those things that makes us human and improve upon them.

Quote (Voekoevaka)
About the "hive-mind" : I fear that the humanity will feel lonely. Being together and having divergent opinions make us evolve, and give us a unique culture. I feel that the major progress to do is in education, and the important is to build a "bright" future.


Yes but if you have a hive mind like we have the internet but with brains linked with individuals free to pursue what they want and share that info you would advance even faster.





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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 18:02
 
Antza2Date: Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 18:00 | Message # 26
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About the "hive-mind" : I fear that the humanity will feel lonely. Being together and having divergent opinions make us evolve, and give us a unique culture. I feel that the major progress to do is in education, and the important is to build a "bright" future.

You are discarding the possibility of

Attachments: 8259272.jpg(81Kb)





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Edited by Antza2 - Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 18:01
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 18:05 | Message # 27
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You are discarding the possibility of "aliens image"


But wouldn't we just be alone together?

cry





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Antza2Date: Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 18:08 | Message # 28
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No not at all. If you think of what technology is it is simply an extension of our current senses. By combining ourselves with our technology we ENHANCE those things that makes us human and improve upon them.

That reminded me of an article on a Finnish science magazine that told of a professor in some university (can't for the life of me remember who it was) who wired a sonar to his brain and was actually able to "see" his surroundings in perfect darkness with some mental training. He described it as "tickling" sensation in his brain.





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Edited by Antza2 - Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 18:20
 
Antza2Date: Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 18:09 | Message # 29
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But wouldn't we just be alone together?


biggrin

Attachments: 4547110.png(300Kb)





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DoctorOfSpaceDate: Tuesday, 21.08.2012, 18:16 | Message # 30
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Quote (Antza2)
"together alone"


It was actually an interesting point off of a TV miniseries I saw called Taken. At the end they bring up the question of if we meet intelligent life because we don't want to be alone, doesn't that just make us alone together.

Quote (Antza2)
That reminded me of an article on a Finnish science magazine that told of a professor in some university (can't for the life of me remember who it was) who wired a sonar to his brain and was actually able to "see" his surroundings in perfect darkness with some mental training. He described it as "tickling" sensation in his brain.


The brain is an amazing organ, one with untouched abilities that we haven't even begun to unlock. I suspect this is the century where these abilities become available to most if not all people.





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