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Forum » SpaceEngine » Off-topic Discussions » Conspiracy Theories (And UFOs, ancient astronauts, and other such things.)
Conspiracy Theories
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 21:37 | Message # 121
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Quote (Antza2)
Let me explain what i meant: Person A sees coulour normally. Person B sees them in negative(maybe because his brain manages colours differently). For him red is blue and blue is red, but because he was raised to call what he sees as red, blue, he keeps calling it blue and thinks that everyone sees them the same way as he does. Or maybe those negative colours are actually the proper colours!


Actually its more along the lines of naming and brain interpretation. No one sees in negative colors, we all see along the same narrow band called visible light. However in some cultures they have shared words for colors and in others they have different words for colors. So in cultures with fewer words they tend to interpret the colors differently, not see them differently, interpret them in the brain differently.

Quote (HarbingerDawn)
Humans are exceptionally fallible creatures.


And highly reactive creatures. Walk down a street and scare a bunch of people, I bet you would get punched out of revenge or simply by startling them. Give a whole bunch of humans weapons and the same response is expected. Throw in crowd mentalities in the military and a war and you've got the 1942 incident on your hands.





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Antza2Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 21:37 | Message # 122
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Quote (HarbingerDawn)
my reply to that question in my previous post addresses it

I was writing my post when you posted yours so i didn't see it.





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jtmedinaDate: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:01 | Message # 123
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Quote (HarbingerDawn)
Probably. It would not be the first time in history that such a thing had happened, and it probably won't be the last. Humans are exceptionally fallible creatures.


Prove that there was nothing in the air. Prove it if you can.

Quote (HarbingerDawn)
Yes, I did. I looked at your links and I examined every picture closely. Just like I always do. And I reported to you what I saw. An equally valid question would be did you actually read everything I wrote?


No you didn't. You just adapted an extraordinary event to a more ordinary explanation like, it's just a weather balloon or since they were shooting for more than an hour therefore they were shooting at nothing.

Quote (HarbingerDawn)
I'm sorry you feel that way. If you're sure that this is the truth, then its arguments should stand on their own merits. I think I'm being very open about it, but perhaps I'm not. If I am being closed minded, could you please explain to me how I am? I really do care about the truth more than anything, so if there's something that I'm missing then help me out.


Your argument is insulting the people's intelligence. You are basically saying that these people didn't realize that they were shooting at nothing, So why were they using these beam lights pointing at the object?. They just were hallucinating. were the pictures faked?. News papers, testimonies?.

I think you haven't even got minimally informed about what really happened that night.

Why are you treating people like if they were all stupid.
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:05 | Message # 124
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Quote (jtmedina)
Prove that there was nothing in the air. Prove it if you can.

The burden of proof is not in saying I don't think there was anything. The burden of proof is for those who say there was/is something, you must provide the evidence.





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Antza2Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:07 | Message # 125
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Quote (jtmedina)
Prove that there was nothing in the air. Prove it if you can.

If you suggest that there was something then you have to prove that there was something. He doesn't need to disprove it if you can't prove it. This is called the burden of proof and it always rests on the person making a claim.





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Antza2Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:07 | Message # 126
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Quote (Antza2)
The burden of proof is not in saying I don't think there was anything. The burden of proof is for those who say there was/is something, you must provide the evidence.

Ninja'd biggrin

Edit: Anyway this is starting to sound like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWsH6GO6PIA (and please don't start a religious argument because of this and if you do then do it in another thread.)





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Edited by Antza2 - Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:12
 
jtmedinaDate: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:17 | Message # 127
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Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
The burden of proof is not in saying I don't think there was anything. The burden of proof is for those who say there was/is something, you must provide the evidence.


Yes, but by not saying they were shooting at nothing. There is a big difference between, we don't have the head of an alien as proof of alien visitation to It's something we can not explain therefore let's treat these people like if they were idiots.

Because I think no one for sure knows what's really going on, we can't just debunking and discrediting people who have experienced/seen things... for fun. Which is even more disappointing.
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:18 | Message # 128
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Quote (jtmedina)
Prove that there was nothing in the air. Prove it if you can.

I never said that there was nothing, I only said that there was probably nothing. I made no claims of certainty. And as DoctorOfSpace says, the burden of proof is on you because you made the claim that there is something there.

Quote (jtmedina)
You just adapted an extraordinary event to a more ordinary explanation like, it's just a weather balloon or since they were shooting for more than an hour therefore they were shooting at nothing.

I never said either of those things. I wasn't being serious when I asked if you really read what I wrote, but now I can see that you did not. And how can you say that I did not look at the links you posted? I told you that I did, I gave comments that only would have made sense had I examined the photographs, and you weren't sitting with me at my desk as I did all of this (or didn't as you say). I'm not a liar, please do not call me one.

Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
Your argument is insulting the people's intelligence. You are basically saying that these people didn't realize that they were shooting at nothing, So why were they using these beam lights pointing at the object?. They just were hallucinating. were the pictures faked?. News papers, testimonies?.

How is my argument insulting anyone's intelligence? These types of events have been documented throughout military history, accidentally firing at friendly forces, reacting to objects that weren't there or weren't what they appeared to be, etc. This seems to me to be another one of those cases, a very plausible scenario given the circumstances, as I explained. I would not hold anyone to blame if they were shooting at the sky that night, and if I had been there I probably would have been shooting too. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

As for the search lights, it was an anti-aircraft artillery barrage in the 1940s, searchlights were standard procedure.

I never said that the pictures were faked. Again, you would know this if you had read my comments on them.

Quote (jtmedina)
I think you haven't even got minimally informed about what really happened that night.

I'll be the first one to admit that I don't know everything that happened that night. All I have said is that the evidence I have reviewed so far does not support the claim that there was an alien spacecraft over Los Angeles during this event.

Quote (jtmedina)

Why are you treating people like if they were all stupid.

In what way am I treating people like they were all stupid? I keep asking you to identify in what way I am being closed-minded about this, and all you can do is make broad generalizations.



EDIT:
Quote (Antza2)
Edit: Anyway this is starting to sound like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWsH6GO6PIA

You watch The Atheist Experience? You are awesome biggrin





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Edited by HarbingerDawn - Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:20
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:19 | Message # 129
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Quote (jtmedina)
therefore let's treat these people like if they were idiots.


No one is suggesting they were idiots. We are simply supplying an idea that they were doing what any average human would do in the situation.

Quote (jtmedina)
we can't just debunking and discrediting people who have experienced/seen things


And no one is doing that.

Quote (HarbingerDawn)
You watch The Atheist Experience?


I was about to say the same thing.





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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:23
 
Antza2Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:33 | Message # 130
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Quote (HarbingerDawn)
You watch The Atheist Experience? You are awesome

I indeed watch it. Mainly because i think that Atheism is freeing people from the narrow mindedness of religion and letting them see the world in it's natural glory cool (Also Russell and Matt are awesome.)

And please nobody start a religious debate on this thread. If you'd like to discuss religion or atheism please make a new thread and i'll be happy to discuss those matters. smile





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DoctorOfSpaceDate: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:35 | Message # 131
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And please nobody start a religious debate on this thread. If you'd like to discuss religion or atheism please make a new thread and i'll be happy to discuss those matters.


I brought this up a couple pages back when I kept seeing jtmedina bring up not believing in God as a defense mechanism or as a means of defending an argument.

Personally I'd prefer religion not to be brought up at all anywhere, or whether or not someone believes or disbelieves in God. Those discussions never end well.





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Antza2Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:37 | Message # 132
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Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
Those discussions never end well.

That is sadly true sad





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HarbingerDawnDate: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:45 | Message # 133
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Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
I brought this up a couple pages back when I kept seeing jtmedina bring up not believing in God as a defense mechanism or as a means of defending an argument.

I thought that jtmedina had said that he didn't believe in God, and it was j0KeR that was critical of it? I didn't really know who was saying what so I may be mistaken.

Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
Personally I'd prefer religion not to be brought up at all anywhere, or whether or not someone believes or disbelieves in God. Those discussions never end well.

I wish that people had the maturity and open mindset to discuss those subjects in a calm and polite manner, but as two threads have already shown it will not be possible, not even on this forum :/

Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
I was about to say the same thing.

Wow, I never thought I'd run into so many other fans smile You guys have officially made my day better.





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jtmedinaDate: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:46 | Message # 134
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Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
No one is suggesting they were idiots. We are simply supplying an idea that they were doing what any average human would do in the situation.


What implies that an average human would start shooting more than 14,000 rounds at nothing for more than an hour?. Seriously.

How can you possibly proof they were actually shooting at nothing less than air?. Using their search lights and pointing at that "object".

Years ago it was discovered that the Spanish government was making up explanations of the UFO cases. What they basically did was, they hired scientists to make it look like there was a serious UFO investigation going on. In the end It turned out they were just cheating and inventing the explanations for each case and then they released it to make the appearance like government had disclosure the UFO phenomenon. It happened during the 1990s.
I remember the guy in charge was busted during an interview on an very important news network.

And that happened in Spain so imagine what can happen in a country like the US....Sooo, believe me we will never get to the truth.


Edited by jtmedina - Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:48
 
Antza2Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:51 | Message # 135
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Quote (HarbingerDawn)
I thought that jtmedina had said that he didn't believe in God, and it was j0KeR that was critical of it? I didn't really know who was saying what so I may be mistaken.

Honestly i didn't understand anything while they were arguing. I think J0Ker needs to (and i don't mean to be offensive.) improve his English. And i really don't mean to be offensive. I probably make a lot of typos too since English is not my native language smile





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Forum » SpaceEngine » Off-topic Discussions » Conspiracy Theories (And UFOs, ancient astronauts, and other such things.)
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