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Forum » SpaceEngine » Off-topic Discussions » Conspiracy Theories (And UFOs, ancient astronauts, and other such things.)
Conspiracy Theories
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Monday, 13.08.2012, 19:31 | Message # 31
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Quote (jtmedina)
Black op projects are real but, not all UFO sighting can be attributed to that. Believe me things are not that simple. I can understand that not everyone has the time/will to get informed about these subjects and getting to the good cases is really hard specially of how polluted places like youtube is with all kind of fake videos.


I've seen quite a few myself. But the fact remains they are a UFO what they are is unknown. You cannot say UFO one second and then go on to say well its space aliens or military. When I say it is military I mean that in a highly speculative way based on evidence from the past where unknown aircrafts were mistaken to be flying saucers and aliens.

Quote (Talisman)
I forgot the website but there is a dedicated forum for people who seriously believe the Earth is flat. cool


Flat Earth Society. I've had my run ins with a few of them.



I'll let Tyson explain this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSJElZwEI8o

edit:

And I've done plenty of research into the whole UFO thing. And I have seen plenty of the so called pieces of hard evidence like the Bob White artifact.


All tests come back inconclusive which says to me its not worth your time.





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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Monday, 13.08.2012, 19:43
 
Antza2Date: Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:10 | Message # 32
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9cfagHi-I4 Nazi UFO's biggrin A conspiracy theory so silly they had to make a movie about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KEueJnsu80&bpctr=1344886735




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jtmedinaDate: Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:14 | Message # 33
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1-Tyson is a showman.
2- It's always easy pick the case that is very easy to dismiss and say, Hey! you see, it's just a couple of crazy people. I don't think that it is always the case.

3- Main stream science will never tackle the UFO phenomenon in a serious way simply because even they have to pay a mortgage.

4- That video of Tyson is really insulting. Things are not that simple. Sadly not everyone is open minded enough to read or get to the bottom of the subject.

5- Despite how beautiful science is. Many scientists are narrow minded and incapable of thinking out of the box. Sadly, that's a fact.

If you have some sort of curiosity about the subject....

"Kenneth Arnold�s first sighting (1947)"
"Thomas F Mantell attempted intercept (January 1948)"
"1942-Battle of Los Angeles"
"Washington National sightings (July 1952)"
"ET Encounter The Cisco Grove Encounter Tahoe Forest 1964"
"Ariel School UFO Encounter - Ruwa, Zimbabwe"
"RAF Lightning UFO Mystery 1970"
"The High Bentham Incident"
"Captain Lawrence Coyne UFO Helicopter case 1973"
"Former Canadian Defense Minister confirms UFO reality in Hawaii"
"Rendlesham Forest incident (1980)"

And that's the tip of the iceberg.

Keep discrediting if you have fun, but the truth is always there. Awaiting to be discovered.

As for the flat Earth. Well, we live in a very crazy, insane world specially many fanatic religious people who firmly believe in an invisible god. I believe religion is a plague based on superstition and fear that should be eradicated and a waste of time. Despite that, millions still believe in the existence of that invisible god, who will protect them and save them.

I am a man of science, I think it's the only way to go. but also someone open to new ideas and subjects. I don't know what UFOs really are but also I don't dismiss it but read about it in a very open minded way.

Putting in the same bag global warming, flat earth, UFOs, 9/11 control demolitions, Mayan calendar, LIBOR scandal and the pyramids and say hey! this is just a conspiracy. It is not very wise because nothing in this life is black or white.

Some people can keep making laugh, I'll expend my time reading and understanding.

Sad, I thought people on this forum were more open minded.
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:18 | Message # 34
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Quote (Antza2)
Nazi UFO's biggrin A conspiracy theory so silly they had to make a movie about it


I wouldn't go so far to say the Nazi experiments are conspiracy. Covered up sure, but a bit closer to reality than conspiracy. It is not a conspiracy that the USA brought Nazi scientists over to the USA with Operation Paperclip nor is it conspiracy that the Nazis were working on advanced forms of propulsion.

If you examine historical documents of the Die Glocke experiments you get very little info from the German side of things. However reports of the bell say it was acorn shaped, bronze color, and used ceramics. Then if you skip forward a couple decades you get the Kecksberg incident which interestingly enough was highly similar to the Nazi bell experiment reports.

Link to a description of the Kecksberg incident. Kecksberg UFO incident

All of these are backed by physical historical documents that prove the military was involved and the local forest area was closed off to the public. They blamed the whole thing on a meteor.

This brings me back to my earlier point. I think the majority of UFO sightings are military projects that are highly classified. Plus documents have turned up from within the Military that support perpetuating the UFO alien stories because they are a great cover for black projects.

Quote (jtmedina)
Sad, I thought people on this forum were more open minded.







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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:22
 
jtmedinaDate: Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:18 | Message # 35
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Quote (Antza2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9cfagHi-I4 Nazi UFO's A conspiracy theory so silly they had to make a movie about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KEueJnsu80&bpctr=1344886735


Why not focusing on the real cases?.

CNN Special Assignment The Rendlesham Forest Incident.mp4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeO7NKV22xY

I feel very disappointed.

UFO Milton Torres, Former pilot recalls close encounter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wo1Lsihz4o
 
Antza2Date: Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:24 | Message # 36
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Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
I wouldn't go so far to say the Nazi experiments are conspiracy. Covered up sure, but a bit closer to reality than conspiracy. It is not a conspiracy that the USA brought Nazi scientists over to the USA with Operation Paperclip nor is it conspiracy that the Nazis were working on advanced forms of propulsion.

If you examine historical documents of the Die Glocke experiments you get very little info from the German side of things. However reports of the bell say it was acorn shaped, bronze color, and used ceramics. Then if you skip forward a couple decades you get the Kecksberg incident which interestingly enough was highly similar to the Nazi bell experiment reports.

Link to a description of the Kecksberg incident. Kecksberg UFO incident

All of these are backed by physical historical documents that prove the military was involved and the local forest area was closed off to the public. They blamed the whole thing on a meteor.


I have actually read almost everything i could find on those incidents and i know about Operation Paperclip and Die Glocke. The actual flying saucers are still in my opinion a conspiracy theory but it is true that they were studying disc shaped flying objects. Still i'm sure they sure as hell didn't fly to the moon with them biggrin





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jtmedinaDate: Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:28 | Message # 37
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Quote (DoctorOfSpace)



I don't want to believe. I want to know.
Do you believe in god?. Because I don't.

Thank you for telling me who you really are.

Making these kind of comment only shows the kind of person you are.


Edited by jtmedina - Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:30
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:28 | Message # 38
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Quote (jtmedina)
Black op projects are real but, not all UFO sighting can be attributed to that.

I know that the majority of UFO sighting cannot be attributed to black projects, but most can be easily attributed to something mundane, perhaps 99% or more. Nonetheless I too have seen things once or twice that cannot be easily explained by any known natural or man-made phenomena. But I don't immediately jump to the conclusion that it was extraterrestrial spacecraft, because I recognize that it is far more likely to be something else that I either don't know of or haven't thought of.

Just because you can't explain it doesn't mean it's aliens.

Also, I would highly recommend Carl Sagan's book "The Demon-Haunted World". Much of it relates to this discussion wonderfully.

Quote (jtmedina)
It takes a good deal of open mindedness to watch them.

I'm always down for watching these things. I'll never be one to turn someone away if they think they have made a discovery. I'll either learn something new, or I'll have fun debunking their fallacious ideas. Either way I come out ahead.





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DoctorOfSpaceDate: Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:30 | Message # 39
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Quote (Antza2)
Still i'm sure they sure as hell didn't fly to the moon with them


From the documents I've read it seems the farthest the Nazis got was a irradiated room and a lot of dead soldiers and scientists. Different reports say they either got things to fly and others say they barely got anything off the ground in regards to the bell. At this point in time I doubt anyone, who wasn't involved in recovering the information, will ever know the truth.

Quote (jtmedina)

CNN Special Assignment The Rendlesham Forest Incident.mp4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeO7NKV22xY

Quote (jtmedina)
UFO Milton Torres, Former pilot recalls close encounter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wo1Lsihz4o


The fact still remains there is no real hard evidence. Its a great story but by definition it is not evidence, its a story told by people who say they had an experience. Sure there are audio recordings, there are images, grainy questionable video, but its not evidence and doesn't prove anything.

When I see this I can't help but think military project. Every UFO I've ever heard of or seen has a shape that can be easily traced to previous military projects. Or its just a kite/balloon with some lights on it.


Quote (jtmedina)
I don't want to believe. I want to know.
Do you believe in god?. Because I don't.

Thank you for telling me who you really are.

Making these kind of comment only shows the kind of person you are.


I have no idea what this is even supposed to mean but alright.

Quote (HarbingerDawn)
Also, I would highly recommend Carl Sagan's book "The Demon-Haunted World". Much of it relates to this discussion wonderfully.


Probably one of my favorite books.





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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:34
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:36 | Message # 40
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Quote (jtmedina)
Main stream science will never tackle the UFO phenomenon in a serious way simply because even they have to pay a mortgage.

Science has tackled the UFO phenomenon more than once, especially back in the 1960's when it was a big thing. They did not find any compelling evidence that alien spacecraft were visiting the Earth, and found a good deal of evidence to discredit the majority of eyewitness accounts. Carl Sagan was one of these scientists (before he was a celebrity): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbfOqgQVKmI





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jtmedinaDate: Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:36 | Message # 41
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Quote (HarbingerDawn)
I'm always down for watching these things. I'll never be one to turn someone away if they think they have made a discovery. I'll either learn something new, or I'll have fun debunking their fallacious ideas. Either way I come out ahead.


But it seems always discrediting, prevails. I haven't seen a single post trying to get to the bottom of what's really going on. Most of the people just enjoy dismissing but they don't pay attention to the good cases. Seems like you have to have 20 PHds to be heard.
Think about it. It's always much easier open a thread just to discredit than open a thread to try to bring some light about this subject.

The truths is always out there, unfortunately not everyone is open minded or have enough time to get to it.

PS:Checkout my posts. you'll find very interesting information.

Quote (HarbingerDawn)
Science has tackled the UFO phenomenon more than once, especially back in the 1960's when it was a big thing. They did not find any compelling evidence that alien spacecraft were visiting the Earth, and found a good deal of evidence to discredit the majority of eyewitness accounts. Carl Sagan was one of these scientists (before he was a celebrity): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbfOqgQVKmI


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COMETA
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:44 | Message # 42
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Quote (HarbingerDawn)
Science has tackled the UFO phenomenon more than once, especially back in the 1960's when it was a big thing. They did not find any compelling evidence that alien spacecraft were visiting the Earth, and found a good deal of evidence to discredit the majority of eyewitness accounts. Carl Sagan was one of these scientists (before he was a celebrity): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbfOqgQVKmI


Also Project Blue Book

Quote (jtmedina)
not everyone is open minded or have enough time to get to it.


This is not an issue about being open minded. I hear the same rhetoric from highly religious individuals who say to disregard god is closed minded. This is an issue about evidence, real SOLID physical evidence.

The US government did a long term study and concluded

Quote
No UFO reported, investigated and evaluated by the Air Force was ever an indication of threat to our national security;
There was no evidence submitted to or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as "unidentified" represented technological developments or principles beyond the range of modern scientific knowledge; and
There was no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as "unidentified" were extraterrestrial vehicles

By the time Project Blue Book ended, it had collected 12,618 UFO reports, and concluded that most of them were misidentifications of natural phenomena (clouds, stars, etc.) or conventional aircraft. According to the National Reconnaissance Office a number of the reports could be explained by flights of the formerly secret reconnaissance planes U-2 and A-12.[2] A small percentage of UFO reports were classified as unexplained, even after stringent analysis. The UFO reports were archived and are available under the Freedom of Information Act, but names and other personal information of all witnesses have been changed.


Of course if you BELIEVE conspiracy theories then you have already fallen into a biased category of your view on the study from Project Blue Book.





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jtmedinaDate: Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:45 | Message # 43
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Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
The fact still remains there is no real hard evidence. Its a great story but by definition it is not evidence, its a story told by people who say they had an experience. Sure there are audio recordings, there are images, grainy questionable video, but its not evidence and doesn't prove anything.


A story told by people?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendlesham_Forest_incident

I wonder if you have ever read anything remotely about what really happened in the Rendlesham Forest incident

Seriously, get informed. I mean read more about the subject because you are mixing things on purpose.

Do you actually have any idea where that image comes from?


It's amazing you are mixing cases and putting them into a bag.

Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
Also Project Blue Book


That project was to discredit it.
Read more about it.
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:47 | Message # 44
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Quote (jtmedina)
But it seems always discrediting, prevails.

Because the evidence usually leads to discrediting being the appropriate action, not because no one cares to investigate. You seem to think that if someone accepts none of these stories, then they are not being open-minded. That is not the case. I am an exceptionally open-minded individual, I give ear to all manner of crazy ideas and I give them all consideration. I research, I investigate, and I ponder, because the one thing I care about most in the world is truth.

That said, I've never encountered a UFO report that lead me to conclude that it was most likely to be an alien spacecraft, and I have seen very few that could not be easily discredited.

Also jt, if you have something to add after a post, edit your previous post, don't make double posts. Thanks smile





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Edited by HarbingerDawn - Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:50
 
jtmedinaDate: Monday, 13.08.2012, 20:50 | Message # 45
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Quote (DoctorOfSpace)
Of course if you BELIEVE conspiracy theories then you have already fallen into a biased category of your view on the study from Project Blue Book.


That's what you think. For not believing I don't even believe in god.

You are just picking the cases that tell the official story, but I think you as many just hide trying to be objective when most likely haven't read about it in your life.

Project Blue Book was a project to shut people's mouth. An attempt to make UFO phenomenon look like something embarrassing. It was never about the truth.

Amazing and you call your self Doctor of Space LOL. Bizarre.
 
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