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Forum » SpaceEngine » Off-topic Discussions » Totally off-topic thread (Talk about anything.)
Totally off-topic thread
spacerDate: Tuesday, 30.08.2016, 16:43 | Message # 3106
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DoctorOfSpace, yeah i read it but couldnt understand it much.
does it means that some kind of intelligent entity rise from nothing? no matter?
it sound like god.... wacko





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DoctorOfSpaceDate: Tuesday, 30.08.2016, 17:10 | Message # 3107
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some kind of intelligent entity rise from nothing


Just that over a long enough period of time it becomes statistically probable that something as complex as a brain can come out of nothing, much in the same way that a universe might.

Sounds like faulty reasoning to me, but I don't know enough about quantum mechanics.





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WatsisnameDate: Tuesday, 30.08.2016, 17:29 | Message # 3108
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The Boltzmann brain has a lot to do with entropy (go figure, from the guy who basically developed entropy). The idea says that we exist in such an 'organized' low entropy state that it seems highly improbable that we should have formed that way. More probable, the argument goes, that the universe would randomly produce self-aware entities out of random fluctuations on a large scale. I.e. it is more likely that our consciousnesses should be "Boltzmann brains" formed out of fluctuations than meat-brains in an organized environment, so this implies a paradox.

Personally, I think the idea is kind of silly and isn't really a paradox at all. It is not more probable for us to exist as Boltzmann brains. The cosmological evolution naturally leads to the formation of regions which locally reduce entropy. Those are the stars and planets. smile It is completely unsurprising that conscious brains develop in organized environments.





 
spacerDate: Tuesday, 30.08.2016, 17:52 | Message # 3109
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Watsisname, what about in the far far future when all left in the universe is only quantom stuff (see timeline i posted from wiki)
and if i understand right and anything could be formed from quantom tunneling etc...
would it also be correct if i would say that a giraffe could be formed suddenly? :D
well if brains and big bang can be formed from that quantom tunneling. why would a giraffe not be formed? tongue wacko





"we began as wanderers, and we are wanderers still"
-carl sagan

-space engine photographer


Edited by spacer - Tuesday, 30.08.2016, 17:52
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Tuesday, 30.08.2016, 18:02 | Message # 3110
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would it also be correct if i would say that a giraffe could be formed suddenly? :D
well if brains and big bang can be formed from that quantom tunneling. why would a giraffe not be formed?


Going off of probability it may be possible, but it still seems like it comes from a misunderstanding of the physical laws in action.

I suspect there is something within the universe that would prevent such things from just popping out of nothing.





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midtskogenDate: Tuesday, 30.08.2016, 18:48 | Message # 3111
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Quote Watsisname ()
Personally, I think the idea is kind of silly and isn't really a paradox at all. It is not more probable for us to exist as Boltzmann brains.

Could the argument be lifted from brains popping into existence to a universe - capable of evolving brains - popping into existence? In a multiverse it could be more probable that such a universe randomly pops into existence than it evolves.

This is in the realm of metaphysics, I think, and I'd rather dismiss the idea on the grounds that it's not particularly interesting than on the grounds of unlikeliness.





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DoctorOfSpaceDate: Tuesday, 30.08.2016, 18:54 | Message # 3112
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Quote midtskogen ()
Could the argument be lifted from brains popping into existence to a universe - capable of evolving brains - popping into existence?


So basically our universe in some sense?





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spacerDate: Tuesday, 30.08.2016, 19:04 | Message # 3113
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that physics so confusing...the universe is very strange!





"we began as wanderers, and we are wanderers still"
-carl sagan

-space engine photographer
 
WatsisnameDate: Wednesday, 31.08.2016, 07:14 | Message # 3114
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Quote midtskogen ()
Could the argument be lifted from brains popping into existence to a universe - capable of evolving brains - popping into existence? In a multiverse it could be more probable that such a universe randomly pops into existence than it evolves.


It probably could. The universe is often described as popping into existence from vacuum fluctuations, though I'm not a big fan of this since we lack the physics for bridging across the initial singularity (or more precisely, the initial singularity signals that our physics is breaking down and failing to describe what really happens). We don't really know how a universe is generated.

At any rate, in the setting of multiverses we would expect that most universes would not develop brains. This is a different kind of logical paradox than the Boltzmann brain. In this case the resolution is the anthropic principle: naturally we exist in a universe that is conducive to evolving brains, in the same way we naturally live on a planet that is conducive to hosting life. The Boltzmann paradox is that brains could develop in an organized environment or out of randomness, and the randomness is supposedly more probable, so it would be surprising to be meat brains and not Boltzmann brains. Anthropic principle doesn't resolve that one -- you could be a Boltzmann brain and not know it. smile

Quote midtskogen ()
This is in the realm of metaphysics, I think, and I'd rather dismiss the idea on the grounds that it's not particularly interesting than on the grounds of unlikeliness.


Agree completely. Proving you're not a Boltzmann brain or proving we do live in a multiverse both seem untestable to current knowledge. It's a matter of one's philosophical model of reality more than a model of physics.





 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Wednesday, 31.08.2016, 23:33 | Message # 3115
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HornblowerDate: Wednesday, 31.08.2016, 23:55 | Message # 3116
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DoctorOfSpace, this, ofcourse, is the only logical solution
 
steeljaw354Date: Thursday, 01.09.2016, 00:12 | Message # 3117
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Anyone watch mlp? Whats your favorite character in it if you do watch it? Mine is Starlight Glimmer.
 
WwadlolDate: Thursday, 01.09.2016, 07:10 | Message # 3118
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steeljaw354, I actually remember watching that back in 2013 I think. I thought that show was over a long time ago, considering I've never heard about it since then.
 
steeljaw354Date: Thursday, 01.09.2016, 12:56 | Message # 3119
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It's on season 6 by now. Heres my favorite character


Edited by steeljaw354 - Thursday, 01.09.2016, 13:21
 
spacerDate: Tuesday, 06.09.2016, 20:18 | Message # 3120
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ocean worlds:
http://www.nasa.gov/specials/ocean-worlds/
Quote
Water molecules exist in the Orion Nebula and are still forming today. The nebula is composed mostly of hydrogen gas; other molecules are comparatively rare. Even so, the nebula is so vast that it creates enough water every day to fill Earth’s oceans 60 times over. Water, along with every other molecule created in these stellar nurseries, becomes raw material for the formation of new planetary systems.


whaaa x60 times earth water in 1 day :shok:
Quote
Factoid: Ocean levels are currently rising at the rate of 0.13 inches per year.

The Greenland ice sheet is melting at the rate of 287 billion tons a year, and the Antarctic ice sheet is losing 134 billion tons a year. Both will be factors in sea level rise.





"we began as wanderers, and we are wanderers still"
-carl sagan

-space engine photographer


Edited by spacer - Tuesday, 06.09.2016, 20:23
 
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