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Forum » SpaceEngine » Science and Astronomy Discussions » Red Giant Sun (When the Sun goes Red Giant, will earth survive?)
Red Giant Sun
steeljaw354Date: Tuesday, 31.05.2016, 01:57 | Message # 1
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Fast forward about 5 billion Earth years, the sun will be Red Giant, will Earth survive? Some say that it will spiral down into it and some say that it will go outward, what do you think? What is the most possible?
 
WatsisnameDate: Tuesday, 31.05.2016, 07:02 | Message # 2
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Both are possible. Drag with the solar atmosphere as well as tidal evolution act to shrink Earth's orbit, while the Sun's mass loss acts to expand the orbit. Which effect will prove to be stronger? Hard to say. This has been a difficult astrophysics modelling problem for quite a while. Latest research suggests that the effect of drag will win, and Earth will be engulfed.

Also, long before then, Earth will be rendered uninhabitable by the failure of the rock-weathering thermostat. On long timescales (millions of years), the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is regulated by rock weathering, which is temperature dependent. Higher temperature yields greater rainfall which weathers more rock and thus sequesters CO2 more rapidly. As the Sun goes through its main sequence life, it slowly grows more luminous, so the amount of CO2 drops to maintain equilibrium. Eventually this will drop below the threshold required for certain types of photosynthesis, and the biosphere will begin to collapse. This may be within the next billion years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Earth#Climate_impact





 
steeljaw354Date: Tuesday, 31.05.2016, 13:00 | Message # 3
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Well I think there might be a way out, like every thousand years we could fly a huge asteroid by the earth to shift it's orbit outward every push and by the time the sun is a red giant earth would orbit somewhere in between jupiter and saturn. Or we could terraform Mars,Ceres, and Jupiter's moons when the earth becomes a desert.
 
AlekDate: Wednesday, 01.06.2016, 17:26 | Message # 4
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Quote steeljaw354 ()
terraform Mars,Ceres, and Jupiter's moons when the earth becomes a desert.


Mars wouldn't last long as a habitable world once the sun really gets into it's Red Giant phase and I doubt its even possible that we could terraform Ceres due to it being a small, lone body for the most part. (There are of course other asteroids but those can't stabilize the planet's climate like a companion planet/large moon can...it'll already be hard enough to terraform Jupiter and Saturn's moons using the parent planet's gravity)





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steeljaw354Date: Wednesday, 01.06.2016, 22:44 | Message # 5
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Well with ceres you can bascially just cover the planet with a sort of dome and support it, or parraform it. We will have to learn to adapt the lower gravity and other effects.
 
MosfetDate: Wednesday, 01.06.2016, 22:51 | Message # 6
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It could be more effective and cheaper using underground bases.




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steeljaw354Date: Wednesday, 01.06.2016, 23:02 | Message # 7
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Well yeah. You would cover the base under ground with regolith if radiation is an issue. But short term mars, venus and maybe the moon for colonization and perhaps terraforming are our best bets. I could imagine giant radio telescopes covering craters like 5 miles across listening for aliens and having massive arrays that are hidden from radio noise. On the front you would have massive colonies with millions of people adapted to lower gravity and perhaps putting a dome over a decent sized crater and terraforming just that crater.
 
JackDoleDate: Wednesday, 01.06.2016, 23:03 | Message # 8
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In my version of the Red Giant sun, the successor of mankind have moved to Pluto. But I'm not done with the addon. I have a few other ideas.




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steeljaw354Date: Wednesday, 01.06.2016, 23:05 | Message # 9
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Terraformed Pluto and Charon? Can you make Pluto a planet? Terraformed objects?

Edited by steeljaw354 - Wednesday, 01.06.2016, 23:10
 
spacerDate: Wednesday, 01.06.2016, 23:42 | Message # 10
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titan could be the perfect place when the sun will get older




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steeljaw354Date: Wednesday, 01.06.2016, 23:44 | Message # 11
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What's so great about titan? Hydrocarbon seas isn't that great.
 
spacerDate: Thursday, 02.06.2016, 01:21 | Message # 12
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but in billion of years from now when the sun get bigger, titan get warmer.
and the hydrocarbon seas will gone to the atmosphere and space as gases.
the new titan can be in the new habitable zone of the sun red giant stage, it will have great energy sources from the past
while this new world can have warmer temp and maybe even oxygen in the atmosphere if we can terraform
it.
see titan has allready great amount of nytrogen in the atmosphere just like earth (20% higher)
all we need is good amount of oxygen when it get warmer.
about ceres, i dont think domes will work for the long period. ceres cannot support atmosphere because of being too small and too low mass. domes can support some colony but it exposed to the dangers of space. space rocks can hit the dome and even 1 small mistake can destroy all of the population on ceres and kill all humans left in the universe (thinking if we all move there)





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Edited by spacer - Thursday, 02.06.2016, 01:44
 
SpaceEngineerDate: Thursday, 02.06.2016, 12:52 | Message # 13
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You all forgot what all icy moons and planets (Europa, Ganymede, Callisto, Titan, Pluto, ...) are composed by ~50% of WATER ICE. This mean what if they being warmed up to Earth-like temperatures, they melt and turned into ocean worlds with hundreds of kilometers deep ocean (except Europa - it have "only" 20-50 km of water). Some small amounts of meteorite minerals on their modern surface will sink down and burried out under ice VII on the ocean bottom. Each of these worlds will be a small Oceania with clear water and no minerals, with polar ice caps and quickly evaporating atmosphere made primarily of water wapor. So terraforming them is impossible, only surface / underground ("underice") bases are possible, and probably some cold (-50°C) artificial pure oxygen atmosphere (although 0.21 atm pressure requires turning a 30-100 meter thick layer of ice into hydrogen and oxygen).




 
JackDoleDate: Thursday, 02.06.2016, 17:12 | Message # 14
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I think that depends on the development phase.
In my version of the Red Sun, Jupiter has a temperature of 556 K, the Temperature of the moons is similar.
When the icy moons actually made entirely of water, they would be simply evaporated. Except a few small dwarf moons nothing will be left.
Maybe I should remove these moons entirely of my addon. dry



Oh, Titan has a temperature of 441.25 K.

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Edited by JackDole - Thursday, 02.06.2016, 17:14
 
steeljaw354Date: Thursday, 02.06.2016, 19:15 | Message # 15
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Well the dwarf moons would just evaporate I could see large icy moons like Titan,Europa,Enceladus,etc being just without their ice as a body that's small enough to not hold onto an atmosphere would just melt away until it is rock. Desert or selena types instead?
 
Forum » SpaceEngine » Science and Astronomy Discussions » Red Giant Sun (When the Sun goes Red Giant, will earth survive?)
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