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Forum » SpaceEngine » Science and Astronomy Discussions » Is that theoretically possible to discover humanity in RF?
Is that theoretically possible to discover humanity in RF?
CesrateDate: Monday, 03.11.2014, 13:32 | Message # 1
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Well, basically I mean, are the electromagnetic waves emitted by human civilization nowadays distinguishable from the natural background in any frequency at a distance of several parsecs? Or to say, if someone puts an extremely advanced radio telescope several parsecs away, then could he know there's any anomaly in solar system in radio frequency?
 
apenpaapDate: Monday, 03.11.2014, 14:14 | Message # 2
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From what I remember, we could detect ourselves only up to about a lightyear away. Of course, a civilisation with more advanced radio telescopes than us could detect us from farther than that.




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CesrateDate: Monday, 03.11.2014, 14:33 | Message # 3
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Quote apenpaap ()
From what I remember, we could detect ourselves only up to about a lightyear away. Of course, a civilisation with more advanced radio telescopes than us could detect us from farther than that.


Detect in a completely quiet universe or in real universe?
Well, if the former SKA could do obviously better than that...
 
AerospacefagDate: Monday, 03.11.2014, 14:34 | Message # 4
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Cesrate, supposedly, such project as SETI would be able to discover the signal coming form any direction, but only by pure accident. But that is not a main issue - if such civilization does indeed exist, we may accidentally discover each other after some time - maybe in a century or two.

Even though there's something as big as that huge net of radio stations that look into outer space, at every star we discovered near us, it is very unlikely for any civilization to be out there to hear it or to send a signal that will be discovered by it. The problem comes from the fact that we only discovered and used radio waves for about 150 years, of all 5000 years of known human history. And we don't really know how long we will be using them in the future - for several hundred or couple of thousand years at most, after which we will switch to some more advanced way of communication. And I'm not even talking about how small is the period of 5-10 thousands years on the scale of life on Earth or the Universe at large - it is negligible. And the life can appear in any corner of it. So it is vary unlikely that someone, be he out there, would preform such activity with this idea in mind.

Quote
s that theoretically possible to discover humanity in RF?

It is, whoever, very likely that if somebody would be out there, he would definitely notice the anomalous signals coming from several objects in one system. Not that it would discover something of interest in the region, only a typical socially organized civilization, struggling with it's own bureaucracy to get into the near space.
 
JadestarDate: Sunday, 07.12.2014, 16:11 | Message # 5
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Quote apenpaap ()



Quote apenpaap ()
From what I remember, we could detect ourselves only up to about a lightyear away. Of course, a civilisation with more advanced radio telescopes than us could detect us from farther than that.


It depends on the EIRP of the transmitter.

If you're talking about everyday leakage from TV/Radio then that holds true. However if you are talking about the powerful military search radars then you're talking several light years. And if you are talking about the Arecibo planetary radar then it could be detected with a similar sized radio telescope at least hundreds of light years away.

The Square Kilometer Array will be capable of detecting the alien equivalent of an average airport radar on worlds up to 60 light years away and something like Arecibo a thousand light years away.


Edited by Jadestar - Sunday, 07.12.2014, 16:22
 
midtskogenDate: Sunday, 07.12.2014, 20:55 | Message # 6
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I suspect it would be easier to detect us by analysing the makeup of our atmosphere, but that would require the observer to be in our orbital plane. Anyway, it's hard to tell what kind of technology an alien observer would have.

I don't think listening for radio signals is a good way of detecting life. Humankind will be leaking detectable signals only for a couple of hundred years, which is nothing. Radio signal is becoming digitised and compressed, making it (ideally) impossible to tell apart from noise. The only hint would be noise at very specific frequencies.





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Chris94Date: Monday, 08.12.2014, 18:21 | Message # 7
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An another civilization will likely contact us when we are ready for it. I don't think we are ready for it. I think we might be ready in the next 50 years.

Edited by Chris94 - Monday, 08.12.2014, 18:22
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Monday, 08.12.2014, 19:28 | Message # 8
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Quote Chris94 ()
An another civilization will likely contact us when we are ready for it. I don't think we are ready for it. I think we might be ready in the next 50 years.


How do you figure this?

These kind of statements open up too many questions.

What if the civilization near by is behind us or just getting to radio communication? Why would such a civilization wait to contact us? Alternatively, what if they are ahead of us by a few thousand years or greater, why would they even bother contacting someone so primitive? If their technology is anything like ours and advances in a similar manner they would be so far ahead of us they may not even consider us intelligent.

All of this is assuming there is even an intelligent species near by and of course there may not be. This also assumes they would be anything like us, and again they may not be.

Far too many assumptions.





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parameciumkidDate: Monday, 08.12.2014, 22:45 | Message # 9
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Yeah, I agree with the conclusion that a civilization at our level would not be able to discover us solely based on our radio emissions - but as far as discovering that Earth is inhabited, I'll wager it's feasible at much greater distances, due to the fact that Earth is green. As far as we can tell so far, green is only a color that show up naturally on gas giants (and the "green" ones we know aren't even that green).
Earth is still a "pale blue dot", yes, but what I mean by "green" is that it reflects a lot of wavelengths that shouldn't form normally through geological processes. It's more green than a dead version of Earth would be. So if a civilization happened to be looking for inhabited worlds and stumbled across one like ours whose spectrum includes a lot of wavelengths that, through analysis, could be traced to complex organic compounds, my guess is it'd be a relatively clear indication of life being here.
Okay I rambled a bit there. Hopefully you guys still got my points ^^;





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Chris94Date: Tuesday, 09.12.2014, 17:45 | Message # 10
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I believe there are civilizations in our solarsystem that is above our level. Capable of travelling around the nearby galaxies of ours, and also already has contact with others. I don't get it, why so many people in this world are so negative. Makes me wanna do something about it, move to a new planet. One of the reasons why i wanna move away from the country i live in. Some are negative, but some are not, but there are just too many people who are negative. I am really sure Australia or New Zealand are one of the best countries in the world to live in. Hear a lot that Melbourne us one of the best cities in the world to live in. Have considered in a long time to move somewhere else.
 
WatsisnameDate: Tuesday, 09.12.2014, 18:25 | Message # 11
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Quote Chris94 ()
I believe there are civilizations in our solarsystem that is above our level.


Are you sure you meant to say solar system and not galaxy?

I think there could be life in our solar system, but am highly dubious of anything "above our level". At best I suspect there could be some reasonably complex ecosystems under Europa's ice. As for life elsewhere in the galaxy, it'd be incredible if there isn't any, and I'd bet there is at least one civilization more advanced than ours. I think humans are special, but not that special. biggrin

I agree there is a lot of negativity and sheer stupidity in our species, but there is also great capacity for compassion, problem solving, and wisdom. I can't imagine moving to another planet would be a great solution to anything. Very few humans can survive purely on their own, and to say prospects for doing so on another world are grim is an understatement. Better to try to see the positives on our world and do the best we can to reinforce them.





 
Chris94Date: Tuesday, 09.12.2014, 18:35 | Message # 12
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That is what i meant,. Civilizations in our galaxy that is above our level. Civilizations that is above our level other places in the universe.
I also think there might be something on Titan aswell.
 
WebdogDate: Saturday, 13.12.2014, 18:15 | Message # 13
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Just wanted to mention that the apparent contradiction between the high probability of advanced extraterrestrial civilizations in our galaxy and the lack of detection is called the Fermi Paradox. Many possible solutions have been proposed over the past 60 years or so. smile

Edited by Webdog - Saturday, 13.12.2014, 18:16
 
BlueDracheDate: Sunday, 28.12.2014, 20:35 | Message # 14
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Quote Chris94 ()
An another civilization will likely contact us when we are ready for it. I don't think we are ready for it. I think we might be ready in the next 50 years.


Far, far too soon. I would say FTL transportation and communication would be a reasonable first barrier to any contact by any other civilization out there. With an unobtainable utopian society as a reasonable second barrier. As it stands right now ... we can barely get off our initial rock without wanting to use the technology to vaporize each other.


Edited by BlueDrache - Sunday, 28.12.2014, 20:36
 
Tangle10Date: Wednesday, 14.01.2015, 08:40 | Message # 15
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Quote Webdog ()
Fermi Paradox

Oh so many possibilities... An intelligently-designed life-nurturing universe would probably have the crystal spheres from David Brin's short story of the same name.

Maybe we're too early, maybe we're too late. And maybe it just happens that every alien species uses something better than our communications. We just don't know, and we may not for a while yet.





Tips for finding Earth-Like planets: Look for F, G, or K Class stars. M class habitables will almost always be tidelocked. Oceanias can, of course, also be habitable, they just have tiny amounts of land.
 
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