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Forum » SpaceEngine » Science and Astronomy Discussions » Mars thread (Anything and everything about Mars)
Mars thread
steeljaw354Date: Wednesday, 09.12.2015, 00:53 | Message # 181
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I could imagine other civilzations thinking about the possiblity of liquid water supporting life, just like we are kinda ignorant of what could be out there. I don't belive that life isn't limited to only what we percive. Just because water is everywhere that doesn't mean that it can give rise to life, you could have a planet with oceans everywhere and have them be all autotrophic with only basis being on their sun or whatever star they have.
 
WatsisnameDate: Wednesday, 09.12.2015, 02:50 | Message # 182
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Certainly. There may also be water worlds with no life at all. smile




 
JackDoleDate: Wednesday, 09.12.2015, 07:05 | Message # 183
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Quote Watsisname ()
There may also be water worlds with no life at all.

Frankly, I have no idea what is meant by a 'Oceania'.

A globe, entirely of water, maybe a few other minerals, but nothing quantitative? Such a world certainly has no life, except maybe a few research teams, but everything they need to live, they must bring with them. Okay, as a military base, it would be conceivable, according to the situation of the Interstellar politics.

Or a rocky planet that is completely covered by water. What I think is unlikely, but not impossible. Especially if it are very old planets that are polished smooth by erosion. Such a planet might contain life.

(If one assumes that life is not something almost impossible, something absolutely improbable that actually happens only once in the universe. So sorry I am, I would not bet on the opposite! sad )





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WatsisnameDate: Thursday, 10.12.2015, 09:41 | Message # 184
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It's hard to imagine a planet made entirely of water (no rock or metals), but if they exist they would have ice at depth due to the pressure. The genesis of life on such a planet is pretty doubtful.

In general though, water-worlds would have some rocky or rocky-metallic component to them, and "Oceania" just indicates it has enough water to completely cover the surface (no exposed rocky landmass). Such a world is not too inconceivable. Europa is one! It's just frozen at the surface. It might be all liquid surface (at least briefly) when the Sun goes off the main sequence. smile





 
JackDoleDate: Thursday, 10.12.2015, 10:58 | Message # 185
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Quote Watsisname ()
Such a world is not too inconceivable. Europa is one!

Of course, you're right, I forget objects such as Europe, when I think about water worlds. But, who knows, because ice has a larger volume than water when Europe would thawed, maybe here and there a mountain top would look out? biggrin
There are just way too many water worlds in Space Engine, I think. They're boring. Even under water, they have almost no structure. Maybe if someone builds an underwater city, they become more interesting? cool

But I think all this has nothing to do with Mars. wink





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Edited by JackDole - Thursday, 10.12.2015, 11:00
 
steeljaw354Date: Thursday, 10.12.2015, 11:40 | Message # 186
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You would think that life adapts to the most abundant resource like we are based on water, jupiter has hydrogen/helium clouds so life there would adapt to that and on pluto life could be based off of ice, if you say "pluto is too cold for life" or "a planet is too hot for life" just open your mind and think of what an alien race would think of earth. "but aliens don't exist" well thats untrue, there are over BILLIONS of stars and planets in each galaxy and BILLIONS or Trillions of galaxies out in the univerese, theres at least 1 alien civilzation out there.

Edited by steeljaw354 - Thursday, 10.12.2015, 11:43
 
JackDoleDate: Thursday, 10.12.2015, 13:40 | Message # 187
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Quote steeljaw354 ()
You would think that life adapts to the most abundant resource like we are based on water, jupiter has hydrogen/helium clouds so life there would adapt to that and on pluto life could be based off of ice

I am neither a physicist nor a chemist nor a biologist, but I'm assuming that, so chemical, physical or biological processes can run, something must be there, in which they run. In a world of water, for example, which consists almost entirely of H²O, hydrogen and oxygen, the processes that can run there are very limited.

In addition, any chemical process requires heat, ie energy. On Pluto, for example, heat is in short supply. This does not mean that there are no chemical processes on Pluto. These processes only run much more slowly. That is, if life intended to occur there; it would take much longer than on Earth. And there it has probably taken at least 1 billion years.

On the other hand too much heat would destroy any chemical compound, so probably no life on scorched planets.

And at such exotic life, like liquid black nothing, or living suns, like in the science fiction, I really do not believe. But I would be the last to say impossible. Only very very very unlikely. By the way, I have nothing against improbabilities. cool





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WatsisnameDate: Thursday, 10.12.2015, 23:53 | Message # 188
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Quote JackDole ()
I am neither a physicist nor a chemist nor a biologist


I did study astrobiology at uni, and you are showing a very good grasp of the fundamentals. :)

We believe that any origin of life requires some kind of self-organizing and complexifying chemical processes. In other words, life is an emergent property in any sufficiently complex system, where information can be stored, copied, and transferred to new generations in a manner described by Darwinian evolution.

How do you get such processes to occur? You need three things:
(i) a flow of energy to and from the system, to allow the entropy within the system to decrease
(ii) a mixture of substances which can react to produce increasingly complex products
(iii) a way for these products to self-organize, or else have some other medium or surface to act as a site for their organization

On Earth there were many environments where this could have occurred. For the kind of biochemistry that was involved, water was a vital medium, both for the reactions themselves, and for the transport of materials and waste products. So, steeljaw, life here did not "adapt" to water. It required water.

On a world without water, or one where temperatures are, say, less than 100 Kelvin, or over 2000 Kelvin, or where the only substances are hydrogen and helium and simple trace gases, it's pretty hard to imagine how life of any sort could develop. How wide is the range of compounds you can make there? Do you expect there to be emergent complexity?

It's extremely easy to look at astrobiology and say "man, we're so Earth-centric". And we are! But it's also easy to forget that there are some simple principles of physics and chemistry that must apply. The goal of astrobiology is to understand those principles and discover what they imply for life in the universe at large.





 
steeljaw354Date: Wednesday, 10.02.2016, 21:28 | Message # 189
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Yeah well if titan had life it would be based on the methane lakes and it's cold.
 
LookAtDatDakkaDate: Wednesday, 10.02.2016, 21:56 | Message # 190
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NASA has released a video showing Curiosity in Namib Dune in 360°.





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Destructor1701Date: Wednesday, 17.02.2016, 01:53 | Message # 191
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You have to watch that on YouTube for the 360* thing to work, I think the forum still uses the old flash embed somehow.

You can just click through on the embed anyway.





 
LookAtDatDakkaDate: Wednesday, 02.03.2016, 04:43 | Message # 192
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MAVEN observes Phobos that will help scientist determine the composition of the moon and whether if the moon is captured or not.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature....aviolet





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spacerDate: Thursday, 30.06.2016, 21:33 | Message # 193
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dunes of mars:





"we began as wanderers, and we are wanderers still"
-carl sagan

-space engine photographer
 
FastFourierTransformDate: Thursday, 14.07.2016, 17:26 | Message # 194
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The new theory for the formation of Phobos and Deimos is soo elegant and interesting!!! :)

The article has been published in Nature a few days ago. This machanism should change the way moons are generated in some planets on SE. It's quite interesting how this have happened.

Here you have a video showing shematically the discovery:



The central part of the mechanism is the radial transport of angular momentum from the inside of massive rings/disks to objects that are created at the roche limit. They think that the same mechanism can be applied to the innermost moons of Saturn, Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune. They show this in this other video:



Edited by FastFourierTransform - Thursday, 14.07.2016, 17:33
 
steeljaw354Date: Thursday, 14.07.2016, 19:05 | Message # 195
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What happens if we nuke phobos or deimos?
 
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