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Forum » SpaceEngine » Science and Astronomy Discussions » Asteroids, meteors, and meteorites (Everything related to space rocks.)
Asteroids, meteors, and meteorites
neutronium76Date: Friday, 24.01.2014, 13:11 | Message # 151
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Quote HarbingerDawn ()
is probably composed of water ice


Lets not jump into conclusions. Water is probably very rare in space. That is why organic life as we know it is also non existent outside earth up to now. These jet streams are probably from other volatile elements such as Nitrogen, or less likely hydrogen or helium. Complex chemicals such as Ammonia, Nitrogen compounds, CO2/CO and water are probably less likely to be found there.





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DIS7RICTDate: Friday, 24.01.2014, 13:24 | Message # 152
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Quote HarbingerDawn ()
It's an ice world


That makes sense. I would have expected it if I had known that. Ceres is the only planet I haven't read up about, I think it's time to study.

Quote neutronium76 ()
Water is probably very rare in space. That is why organic life as we know it is also non existent


Let's not jump to conclusions. There's more than one planetary system in the Universe. We have barely studied our own, we still have no idea if there is other organic life in the Solar system, or any good idea of the abundance of water in our or other systems.





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Edited by DIS7RICT - Friday, 24.01.2014, 14:20
 
midtskogenDate: Friday, 24.01.2014, 14:18 | Message # 153
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Quote neutronium76 ()
Water is probably very rare in space

Why do you say that? Meteorites may contain quite a lot of water, or have minerals modified by water, direct proof that many asteroids contain significant amounts of water.





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HarbingerDawnDate: Friday, 24.01.2014, 16:03 | Message # 154
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Quote neutronium76 ()
Water is probably very rare in space

blink You do realize that the reason we know it's water vapor on Ceres is because they use spectrometers to detect the composition? And you do realize that water is the single most abundant compound and second most abundant molecule in the universe, and that the majority of objects in the solar system are composed largely of water ice? Water is not rare; it is extremely common. It is more common in non-gas worlds than any other single substance.

Forgive me, but with as much experience as you have with SE and discussing and learning about astronomy, I find it almost impossible to believe that you didn't know that already.





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neutronium76Date: Friday, 24.01.2014, 16:20 | Message # 155
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Quote DIS7RICT ()
we still have no idea if there is other organic life in the Solar system

True. However, based on current observational evidence, our solar system is probably dead.

Quote midtskogen ()
Meteorites may contain quite a lot of water

Comets yes. Meteorites, if they contain, is probably mixed with a lot of other elements or chemicals and is in a very ''contaminated'' state. Even comets which are believed that contain plenty, have it mixed with dirt and dust. What we see when a comet approaches the sun is this dust and dirt that is being thrown out due to evaporation of all volatile stuff that is trapped within the dust.

Added (24.01.2014, 19:20)
---------------------------------------------
Quote HarbingerDawn ()
is because they use spectrometers to detect the composition?


Aha so that's how they know. Ok then, Ceres is an exception.

Quote HarbingerDawn ()
hat water is the single most abundant compound and second most abundant molecule in the universe, and that the majority of objects in the solar system are composed largely of water ice? Water is not rare; it is extremely common


I know of that but I have my doubts and my own beliefs on that matter.





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Edited by neutronium76 - Friday, 24.01.2014, 16:23
 
DIS7RICTDate: Friday, 24.01.2014, 17:02 | Message # 156
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I'm certainly no expert but I have some things to say on these matters.

Quote neutronium76 ()
True. However, based on current observational evidence, our solar system is probably dead.


But there isn't any proper observational evidence dismissing life, except on the obvious planets. There is a little evidence for life on Mars though. It has water-ice just under the surface as physically seen by the Phoenix lander. However I'm (or anyone else for that matter) not saying that it has life, but that the chance for subsurface life is there, however small it may be. There is also evidence for sub-surface oceans existing on Callisto, Dione, Enceladus and Europa, which could also support life, and now possibly but unlikely, Ceres. There is still a lot to see and find, so making that assumption so soon isn't a good idea. This isn't the future, we don't have devices that we point to other planets that read back "NO LIFE SIGNS DETECTED". We need to go there to be sure.

Quote neutronium76 ()
Comets yes. Meteorites, if they contain, is probably mixed with a lot of other elements or chemicals and is in a very ''contaminated'' state. Even comets which are believed that contain plenty, have it mixed with dirt and dust. What we see when a comet approaches the sun is this dust and dirt that is being thrown out due to evaporation of all volatile stuff that is trapped within the dust.


So you're saying that the all the oceans, rivers, lakes, ponds and puddles on earth aren't all mixed with dirt, dust and other elements? Of course they are, and they even have life in almost every single one of them. No one was insisting it was pure water to begin with.

Quote neutronium76 ()
Aha so that's how they know. Ok then, Ceres is an exception.


What the..? Didn't you read any of the released information, or even know anything about how we study other worlds? How else were we supposed to know? We didn't just take a picture and say "Hey, that must be water spurting out over there!".

Quote neutronium76 ()
I know of that but I have my own beliefs on that matter.


It doesn't matter how much you believe otherwise, the evidence is there and it points to the fact. What is the point in believing something if you can't prove it in any way, shape or form? What exactly are your beliefs and how do you back them up, and with what evidence?

Anyone with higher knowledge may correct me if I am misleading anywhere.

EDIT: Sorry if I seem harsh or mean, I'm not trying to be.





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Edited by DIS7RICT - Friday, 24.01.2014, 17:07
 
neutronium76Date: Friday, 24.01.2014, 17:35 | Message # 157
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Quote DIS7RICT ()
It has water-ice just under the surface as physically seen by the Phoenix lander


Current evidence suggests that it is very unlikely. Probably false readings from the device.

Quote DIS7RICT ()
We need to go there to be sure


No we don't. there is enough evidence that there is no life in our solar system.

Quote DIS7RICT ()
So you're saying that the all the oceans, rivers, lakes, ponds and puddles on earth aren't all mixed with dirt, dust and other elements? Of course they are, and they even have life in almost every single one of them. No one was insisting it was pure water to begin with.


Conditions on earth permit life even on dirty water. Conditions in space don't.

Quote DIS7RICT ()
We didn't just take a picture and say "Hey, that must be water spurting out over there!".


I thought that this was how we discover water.

Quote DIS7RICT ()
the evidence is there and it points to the fact.


The evidence is not conclusive. We have to look more carefully.





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HarbingerDawnDate: Friday, 24.01.2014, 17:40 | Message # 158
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Quote neutronium76 ()
I know of that but I have my doubts and my own beliefs on that matter.


So a spectrometer detecting water on Ceres is acceptable evidence, but it's not acceptable when it comes to all the other water that has been detected in the universe? And like DIS7RICT said, your beliefs are irrelevant since they have no bearing on what is actually true.

EDIT: Ok, from that last post you made (after I made this one), I have to conclude that you're either trolling or just don't care about the truth in any way. You refuse to accept even the most definitive and concrete evidence of an obvious fact: that water is abundant in the universe. In either case, there is no point in continued discussion.





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Edited by HarbingerDawn - Friday, 24.01.2014, 17:43
 
DIS7RICTDate: Friday, 24.01.2014, 18:31 | Message # 159
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Quote neutronium76 ()
Current evidence suggests that it is very unlikely. Probably false readings from the device.


How can physically seeing water-ice evaporate be a false reading? It wasn't a reading.

Quote neutronium76 ()
No we don't. there is enough evidence that there is no life in our solar system.


What? You can't be serious can you? Did you not listen to anything I said? What evidence are you talking about. Please show us and any scientist out there so we can stop wasting millions of dollars and all of our time trying to find it then.

Quote neutronium76 ()
Conditions on earth permit life even on dirty water. Conditions in space don't.


I wasn't saying they did permit life or needed to on asteroids. Of course life can't exist in a vacuum. What were you trying to prove when you were saying it was dirty water to begin with?

Quote neutronium76 ()
I thought that this was how we discover water.


You really need to learn some more about how we do these things. I don't think you have even the slightest idea.

Quote neutronium76 ()
The evidence is not conclusive. We have to look more carefully.


It may not be conclusive, but at the moment all the evidence to suggest that it is, is there.

Why do I have this feeling you don't know what you are talking about. It's like you do not want to believe that there is life elsewhere. It's almost like you're religious in some way and your beliefs do not allow for such a thing.

Quote HarbingerDawn ()
In either case, there is no point in continued discussion.


I seem to agree with you on this one.





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Edited by DIS7RICT - Friday, 24.01.2014, 18:35
 
midtskogenDate: Thursday, 03.04.2014, 14:03 | Message # 160
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New Martian crater.

Added (19.02.2014, 00:15)
---------------------------------------------
Another meteorite has crashed through a roof in Oslo! It was recently found when the owner inspected the roof having noticed some icicles forming at the edge. The meteorite weighs 2.8 kg and broke in two pieces upon impact. It's right in the debris path of the meteorites that fell over Oslo in March 2012 and it lootks identical. This should be more than enough to be sure that the new meteorite is from the same fall. However, the owner finds it strange that the hole in the roof wasn't discovered if it's that old, since the roof was repaired for a leak last summer. And a loud bang was heard in the house in October, the circumstances being so that the date and time of the day are certain, and when we checked with NORSAR who monitor earthquakes and operate an infrasound array 100 km north of Oslo, it turns out that they have an infrasound signal at that very day and time originating in the precise direction of Oslo. While it's totally unlikely that two meteorites hit the ground just a couple of km apart in different falls, which should only happen once in several thousand years, the new meteorite will be analysed to check if it's indeed a new fall. We should know in a few weeks.

Pictures and story (in Norwegian) at:
http://norskmeteornettverk.no/wordpress/?p=1198
http://www.dagbladet.no/2014....1866449

Added (03.04.2014, 17:03)
---------------------------------------------
The totally improbable caught on video: Skydiver films falling meteorite.

Added: The Norwegian broadcasting corporation NRK will feature the story in the main TV news later today and after that in the Schrödingers katt show. For now they have a story online: http://www.nrk.no/viten/skydiver-nearly-struck-by-meteorite-1.11646757 (updated, video with subtitles).

(I'm the guy with backpack appearing around 7:00. That was recorded during a search in May last year.)





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Edited by midtskogen - Thursday, 03.04.2014, 17:01
 
SolarisDate: Thursday, 03.04.2014, 21:06 | Message # 161
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wow, outstanding ! The skydiver is quite lucky, the meteorite fall pretty close from him..
I hope you guys will find that rock !
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Thursday, 03.04.2014, 21:39 | Message # 162
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...that is the most unbelievable thing I have ever seen. Even with the video evidence I have a hard time believing it. That might be the most unlikely thing ever captured on film. If someone reported something like that and didn't have video of it, no one would believe it. That's really amazing.




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midtskogenDate: Thursday, 03.04.2014, 21:57 | Message # 163
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Going public with the video is an invitation for anyone to solve the riddle. The story is totally improbable. I and many others have spent countless hours analysing the video. Yes, there are missing pieces of the puzzle, most important a missing meteorite, but we've been unable to find any other acceptable explanation. Unless we've missed important clues, a meteorite however unlikely it sounds appears more probable than the alternatives. The videos are not faked.

Almost two years have passed. It's perhaps a tough decision to go public without the crucial evidence for such a wild story, but I think it's the right thing to do.





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neutronium76Date: Thursday, 03.04.2014, 22:35 | Message # 164
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Has anybody thought of the possibility the 2nd skydiver (the object's trajectory is different from the 2nd skydiver) another skydiver that is flying above (and out of the camera's FOV - hence invisible to the camera) intentionally throwing an object close to the 1st one?




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Edited by neutronium76 - Thursday, 03.04.2014, 22:47
 
anonymousgamerDate: Thursday, 03.04.2014, 22:37 | Message # 165
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There's another object visible in the video. A few frames before the main one enters view, look at the bottom left of the video. You'll see another object.




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Forum » SpaceEngine » Science and Astronomy Discussions » Asteroids, meteors, and meteorites (Everything related to space rocks.)
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