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Forum » SpaceEngine » Science and Astronomy Discussions » Government Human Spaceflight Thread (Anything related to manned spaceflight by governments)
Government Human Spaceflight Thread
neutronium76Date: Monday, 17.09.2012, 11:15 | Message # 1
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ISS Expedition 32 touchdown
Velocity seems high at touchdown?

Hello

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lN-nUBwCWs

Now is it me or is the touchdown velocity of the souyz capsule a bit high during ground contact? Because after six month on the ISS the bones of the astro/cosmonauts would have weakened due to loss of bone mass due to microgravity. So I think such a hard touchdown may cause a fracture unsure . But I guess they have taken this into account and there is no problem.
Why don't they land the soyuz in the kaspian sea by the way?





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Edited by neutronium76 - Monday, 17.09.2012, 11:15
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Monday, 17.09.2012, 12:41 | Message # 2
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Quote (neutronium76)
Now is it me or is the touchdown velocity of the souyz capsule a bit high during ground contact?

It's somewhat of an illusion. It comes down pretty fast and when it lands it makes a huge dust cloud, so you think that it has hit hard. But that's not the case. In the Soyuz design there are retrorockets that fire just before touchdown to soften the landing; that is the source of the dust cloud. So it actually hits the ground much slower than it seems like.

Still a rough ride, but nothing dangerous.



Since there will be a touchdown of an ISS expedition twice per year, should we rename this thread to be just a general ISS or government manned spaceflight news thread? I think that might be a good thing to have.





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neutronium76Date: Monday, 17.09.2012, 13:16 | Message # 3
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Quote (HarbingerDawn)
there are retrorockets that fire just before touchdown to soften the landing


Ah, I thought of that but then these retrorockets must fire just seconds (or maby less than a second) before touchdown because I can't see any rocket flame in the video.





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Edited by neutronium76 - Monday, 17.09.2012, 13:17
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Monday, 17.09.2012, 14:05 | Message # 4
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Quote (neutronium76)
these retrorockets must fire just seconds (or maby less than a second) before touchdown because I can't see any rocket flame in the video.

Yes they do. There are a few pictures out there which show the flame, but it happens for so short a time and so close to the ground that all you can normally see is dust.

Here's the only shot I've ever seen in which the flame is visible: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nasahqphoto/4662470216/





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DoctorOfSpaceDate: Monday, 17.09.2012, 17:50 | Message # 5
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I would love to be able to ride that down some time in my life looks like quite a bit of fun.




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HarbingerDawnDate: Monday, 17.09.2012, 17:52 | Message # 6
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I would love to be able to ride that down some time in my life looks like quite a bit of fun.

You want fun? Try the new version of Dragon. It lands with rockets too, and has a much more comfortable interior smile






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DoctorOfSpaceDate: Monday, 17.09.2012, 19:20 | Message # 7
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Quote (HarbingerDawn)
has a much more comfortable interior


Leave it to the private sector to focus on comfort. cry





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HarbingerDawnDate: Monday, 17.09.2012, 19:24 | Message # 8
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Leave it to the private sector to focus on comfort

I wouldn't say comfort, just a lack of discomfort. Ask anyone who's ever flown on a Soyuz, they'll tell you it's not the most pleasant vehicle to ride in.





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DoctorOfSpaceDate: Monday, 17.09.2012, 19:27 | Message # 9
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I wouldn't say comfort, just a lack of discomfort.


In space flight I would consider that to be quite comfortable. I've sat inside some of the capsules, well replicas obviously, used in the past and they were quite cramped.

Quote (HarbingerDawn)
they'll tell you it's not the most pleasant vehicle to ride in.


Wouldn't doubt that. Still would like a ride





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neutronium76Date: Monday, 17.09.2012, 20:27 | Message # 10
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So since Mr Harb took the initiative to rename this thread to 'Govenrment Human Spaceflight Thread'' ,may I suggest to slightly modify its title one last time to ''Human Spaceflight Thread - news and discussions on manned spaceflight, private and government funded'' or something similar since the private sector is coming in to play a major role in spaceflight inevitably (which is something I am against but that is a different story alltogether wink ) ?

Ps: Nice pic Harb, of the soyuz landing!
Ps2: What!!?? No parachute for the Falcon/Dragon crue capsule after reentry? They must find really crazy guys to fly on such a vehicle.. Only retro rockets?? Come on... This is suicide!





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Edited by neutronium76 - Monday, 17.09.2012, 20:36
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Monday, 17.09.2012, 20:39 | Message # 11
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Quote (neutronium76)
may I suggest to slightly modify its title one last time to ''Human Spaceflight Thread - news and discussions on manned spaceflight, private and government funded'' or something similar since the private sector is coming in to play a major role in spaceflight inevitably

I specifically named this for government manned spaceflight since a non-government spaceflight thread already exists: http://en.spaceengine.org/forum/23-987-1

Quote (neutronium76)
which is something I am against but that is a different story alltogether

Why!? The private sector getting in on spaceflight is a wonderful thing, not to mention necessary! This is what will allow spaceflight to mature as a capability for humanity, and allow us to start expanding beyond Earth in earnest. Even in the short time that has elapsed in this new age of spaceflight, groups in the private sector have already proven that they can accomplish things for much less money, on a much faster timescale, and with much more innovation than governments can (see my little rant on the subject here).

Quote (neutronium76)
Ps2: What!!?? No parachute for the Falcon/Dragon crue capsule after reentry? They must find really crazy guys to fly on such a vehicle.. Only retro rockets?? Come on... This is suicide!

It's not suicide... and anyway, it does have parachutes as a backup in case the rockets malfunction.





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Edited by HarbingerDawn - Monday, 17.09.2012, 20:41
 
neutronium76Date: Monday, 17.09.2012, 21:24 | Message # 12
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Quote (HarbingerDawn)
specifically named this for government manned spaceflight since a non-government spaceflight thread already exists: http://en.spaceengine.org/forum/23-987-1


Oh ok then.. didn't notice that one.

Quote (HarbingerDawn)
Why!? The private sector getting in on spaceflight is a wonderful thing, not to mention necessary! This is what will allow spaceflight to mature as a capability for humanity, and allow us to start expanding beyond Earth in earnest. Even in the short time that has elapsed in this new age of spaceflight, groups in the private sector have already proven that they can accomplish things for much less money, on a much faster timescale, and with much more innovation than governments can (see my little rant on the subject here).


On the surface, and at the current moment in history, that is what it seems like. But we all know of the consequences of privitization in various fields of science. In the UK for example, when they privitized their railway sector in the late 90s early 20s, the accidents increased dramatically. There are many examples but I am a bit tired at the moment and won't search for many examples. We can also see this is the aviation sector. There is a higher accident rate amongst private companies and this is especially true for airport management. Airports under private company control are statistically less safe compared to government controlled ones. Although all companies claim that they seek safety first, they are under constant pressure to return higher and higher profits and in a very competitive world, there management is tempted to cut on everything sometimes. Ok maybe very few times but they are tempted. Under strict government control, such cuts in budget from safety measures are almost impossible (ok not impossible but far less tollerable). I am not saying that we should rule out private companies completely. There must be a co-operation between private and public sector for the exploration of space. But the government, or a governmental body must have strict control over safety measures. If a private company compromises safety for a few mill $, it should be cut off and its contract with NASA, ESA or Russian Space Agency or even better an Intenational Space Agency (Controlled jointly by USA, EU and Russia) must be suspended/broken. The subject is big, really large and we can talk for ages smile .

Quote (HarbingerDawn)
it does have parachutes as a backup in case the rockets malfunction


And when is this backup parachute suppose to open? Because the retro rockets start firing a few hundred meters from the surface, according to this video. Will it have enough time to fully deploy and slow down the capsule sufficiently? It doesn't look like it has, again from the video. Oh ok the video is just an illustration. It's not the final official version of how it will work wink .





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Edited by neutronium76 - Monday, 17.09.2012, 21:30
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Monday, 17.09.2012, 23:38 | Message # 13
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Quote (neutronium76)
And when is this backup parachute suppose to open? Because the retro rockets start firing a few hundred meters from the surface, according to this video.

It looked like more than a few hundred meters to me. In any case this is merely an artist's concept, not an actual engineering and execution representation. I've been following everything that SpaceX has been doing intensely and they've been receiving a lot of scrutiny because all this is new and there are a lot of people out there who feel the same way you do about it. So far they've done nothing but very impressive work and they've demonstrated themselves very capable. As we speak there are several NASA astronauts and many other NASA personnel participating in the design of the spacecraft, as they have since the very beginning. The spacecraft has been designed with astronaut input at every stage and with constant government oversight.





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HarbingerDawnDate: Thursday, 01.11.2012, 02:27 | Message # 14
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Today the Progress M-17M spacecraft (aka Progress 49) docked with the International Space Station just 6 hours after launch. A similar flight occurred earlier this year. I'm glad to see that they're making a regular thing of this smile Hopefully it will become standard procedure for manned flights in a couple of years.






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Edited by HarbingerDawn - Thursday, 01.11.2012, 11:10
 
neutronium76Date: Thursday, 01.11.2012, 08:10 | Message # 15
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6hrs? Wow! I didn't know they can send a vehicle up there that fast. I wonder how faster they can do it rolleyes . When I used to play orbiter I tried to do it fast but I think I either missed the ISS or crashed on it biggrin .

Nice to see you back Mr Harb! I hope ''Sandy'' didn't cause much trouble to you there.





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