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Forum » SpaceEngine » Development Status » SpaceEngine TODO List - Updated 14th Dec 2015 (What's planned for future releases)
SpaceEngine TODO List - Updated 14th Dec 2015
VladVoivodeDate: Thursday, 15.11.2012, 12:59 | Message # 136
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Apologies for the long post:

I don't know how many of you were/are MojoWorld users. It was really the first commercially available complete planet generator. There were plans to create a full blown sequel called MojoSpace which would have allowed the user to create full 3d volumetric space - essentially complete solar systems. I recently corresponded with "Dr. Mojo" and unfortunately, it looks like this will never come to fruition due to funding problems. In fact, there has been no further development on MojoWorld.

One of the "problems" with MojoWorld was that certain geologic features such as active volcanoes and caves could not be implemented into the engine when a planet was generated. There were a number of tricks users created to approximate caves but these were more eye candy than anything explorable. Rivers were possible however to create convincing river systems, the program utilized a mechanism called parameter bombs. It was an engine so to speak within the main engine of MojoWorld. With it you could create river systems and with some creativity also continents. I have no idea how something like this could be implemented on the fly so to speak in SE. Vladimir is a wizard and in this universe he has created also a god (small g on ourpose lol) but what many seem to forget is that MojoWorld focused entirely on one planet in which the user defined all of the parameters. For the faint of heart there was a random planet generator which was fun, but, it really served to create something which tasked the user with filling in all of the other cool stuff.

Someone mentioned Noctis IV. In its time it was a great program but just because flora and fauna were possible in Noctis - which BTW seems to be dead - that does not mean that the same is possible for SE especially in terms of animated fauna. Procedural trees could be done I am guessing with a L system fractal generator for instance - Menger trees come to mind. But remember that in Noctis everything was rather primitive looking and the fauna especially were very simple pixel blocks with very low resoultion.

Why this would not work with SE should seem obvious: at present the software is in 0.96.2 and we are treated with astounding detail on the planets. But the coding to create fauna whose appearance would be a s"realistic" looking as the planets themselves I would guess would be an almost impossible feat. Animating them would be insane! Bust out 3DS Max or Z-Brush, Silo and create a creature from scratch. Convincing animation and modelling for a 3D animated creature would have to take into account kinesthetics, constantly changing refraction, specularity, etc., in real time. Noctis didn't have to deal with this because the engine -while admittedly amazing for its time - was primitive. With SE, Vladimir has already equalled and in some instances surpassed the jaw dropping sequence of the Genesis planet from Star Trek II. THAT took a supercomputer to create!

I wonder however if a compromise could be made: let's say that Vladimir would implement a particle system. It could be possible I think to generate animated herds of animals using a particle system. The caveat would be that these would only look acceptable from a higher orbit. I don't see how generating fauna in the Planetarium portion of SE could work at ground level. For the smaller game component, of course it would work and COULD use actual models. So would caves and such as they could be hand crafted or, like MojoWorld, utilize a concept like parameter bombs or perhaps Boolean logic for caves.

Just brainstroming here and Vladimir - or anyone - please correct me if I am way off base in my thoughts. I have faith in Vladimir, but, I would surmise that it will be at least ten years until computers are powerful enough and affordable to implement convincing fauna especially. I am a musician and 3D artist, not a coder, so I may be completely talking through my glutius maximus wacko


Edited by VladVoivode - Thursday, 15.11.2012, 13:06
 
DisasterpieceDate: Wednesday, 21.11.2012, 05:49 | Message # 137
World Builder
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United States
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Quote (Antza2)
There is no way that could work. You'd need MILLIONS of players for it to be exciting. The universe is big, really big.


I was thinking more along the lines of asking your friends to go to this planet in this area to have your first person shooter war.
Quote (Antza2)
The finished game will feature flight within atmosphere.

Now what would be great is an aircraft/spacecraft making program within space engine so you can make your own ships (think planemaker if you've ever played X-Plane).





I play teh spase engien

Edited by Disasterpiece - Wednesday, 21.11.2012, 05:50
 
mfrankowiczDate: Wednesday, 21.11.2012, 13:18 | Message # 138
Observer
Group: Newbies
Brazil
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Quote (VladVoivode)
Apologies for the long post:

I don't know how many of you were/are MojoWorld users. It was really the first commercially available complete planet generator. There were plans to create a full blown sequel called MojoSpace which would have allowed the user to create full 3d volumetric space - essentially complete solar systems. I recently corresponded with "Dr. Mojo" and unfortunately, it looks like this will never come to fruition due to funding problems. In fact, there has been no further development on MojoWorld.

One of the "problems" with MojoWorld was that certain geologic features such as active volcanoes and caves could not be implemented into the engine when a planet was generated. There were a number of tricks users created to approximate caves but these were more eye candy than anything explorable. Rivers were possible however to create convincing river systems, the program utilized a mechanism called parameter bombs. It was an engine so to speak within the main engine of MojoWorld. With it you could create river systems and with some creativity also continents. I have no idea how something like this could be implemented on the fly so to speak in SE. Vladimir is a wizard and in this universe he has created also a god (small g on ourpose lol) but what many seem to forget is that MojoWorld focused entirely on one planet in which the user defined all of the parameters. For the faint of heart there was a random planet generator which was fun, but, it really served to create something which tasked the user with filling in all of the other cool stuff.

Someone mentioned Noctis IV. In its time it was a great program but just because flora and fauna were possible in Noctis - which BTW seems to be dead - that does not mean that the same is possible for SE especially in terms of animated fauna. Procedural trees could be done I am guessing with a L system fractal generator for instance - Menger trees come to mind. But remember that in Noctis everything was rather primitive looking and the fauna especially were very simple pixel blocks with very low resoultion.

Why this would not work with SE should seem obvious: at present the software is in 0.96.2 and we are treated with astounding detail on the planets. But the coding to create fauna whose appearance would be a s"realistic" looking as the planets themselves I would guess would be an almost impossible feat. Animating them would be insane! Bust out 3DS Max or Z-Brush, Silo and create a creature from scratch. Convincing animation and modelling for a 3D animated creature would have to take into account kinesthetics, constantly changing refraction, specularity, etc., in real time. Noctis didn't have to deal with this because the engine -while admittedly amazing for its time - was primitive. With SE, Vladimir has already equalled and in some instances surpassed the jaw dropping sequence of the Genesis planet from Star Trek II. THAT took a supercomputer to create!

I wonder however if a compromise could be made: let's say that Vladimir would implement a particle system. It could be possible I think to generate animated herds of animals using a particle system. The caveat would be that these would only look acceptable from a higher orbit. I don't see how generating fauna in the Planetarium portion of SE could work at ground level. For the smaller game component, of course it would work and COULD use actual models. So would caves and such as they could be hand crafted or, like MojoWorld, utilize a concept like parameter bombs or perhaps Boolean logic for caves.

Just brainstroming here and Vladimir - or anyone - please correct me if I am way off base in my thoughts. I have faith in Vladimir, but, I would surmise that it will be at least ten years until computers are powerful enough and affordable to implement convincing fauna especially. I am a musician and 3D artist, not a coder, so I may be completely talking through my glutius maximus wacko


Its all matter of using rights alghorithms (or making then), its obvious that you coudn't compute the fauna and flora of billions of planets in today's computers (and who know when?). In the same way, using the common sense, its impossible to compute these billions of planets we can explore in SE. This is possible (and can be the same way for flora and fauna) because of procedural alghorithms, that use mathematical magic to fool your eyes (and brain).

Another thing that its important to give a attention, is the creation process of this project. The best thing of this kind of project, is that every new realease there are cool new features and mechanisms, and you can explore then all! So the process itself is a great thing, we dont have this kind of feeling in final realeases. We all wish for all this features that SpaceEnginer did in the TODO, but lets enjoy his process too :), who knows the next cool new feature in SE?
 
MethisDate: Sunday, 25.11.2012, 17:29 | Message # 139
Space Tourist
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Procedural vegetation may not be quite a difficult as you'd think...
As it turns out, virtually all flora here on Earth abides fairly basic mathematical principles so laying out the basic structure is easy enough. The decision as to how to go from there is what will probably make all the difference: if the plan is to build the geometry for all these plants procedurally, then I, too, am fairly sceptical. However, if the flora is generated from a catalogue of prefabricated parts (types of stems, branches, leafs, flowers, fruit..), then the chances of success are great. Granted, it may not look quite as well polished, but it is so much more viable, that I would happily sacrifice a little bit of aesthetics to see fully and diversely populated worlds. smile
Animal life I'm not too sure about yet, but personally I'm much more eager to see plant life, anyway.. smile (that being said, it's quite possible to use particle systems to believably simulate herds, even close up, if the system is advanced enough.. smile )

Caves - or for that matter any type of horizontal overhang - will be a problem, I suspect, since they cannot be handled in the height map, so either the terrain mapping system would need to be revised dramatically, or a type of work-around would have to be found - preferably one that does not involve slapping on horizontal formations as separate parts...
 
SpaceEngineerDate: Saturday, 15.12.2012, 11:34 | Message # 140
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TODO list updated




 
Red_RiverDate: Saturday, 15.12.2012, 15:27 | Message # 141
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Canada
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what's new?




 
smjjamesDate: Saturday, 15.12.2012, 15:46 | Message # 142
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SpaceEngineer, you forgot to change the title wink




 
HarbingerDawnDate: Saturday, 15.12.2012, 17:11 | Message # 143
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Quote (smjjames)
you forgot to change the title

Fixed





All forum users, please read this!
My SE mods and addons
Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, GTX 970 3584 MB VRAM
 
SpaceEngineerDate: Saturday, 15.12.2012, 23:51 | Message # 144
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Quote (Red_River)
what's new?

Rearranged, marked that is already done, and added this:

Quote
Anyway, I should note: as long as SE is a scientifically accurate Universe simulator, then one day it will implement ALL space objects and phenomenon that are known to modern astronomy. So you may not bother yourself with questions like "will SE one day have meteor rain implemented". I guarantee that it WILL.


BTW, maybe start a new thread describing all features that are already implemented in SE? Starting from the catalog stars up to detail textures on the planets. Completed features from the TODO list may be moved to this DONE list. It may be like a full version of the feature list on the site's main page.

*





 
HarbingerDawnDate: Saturday, 15.12.2012, 23:59 | Message # 145
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Quote (SpaceEngineer)
BTW, maybe start a new thread describing all features that are already implemented in SE?

I like this idea.





All forum users, please read this!
My SE mods and addons
Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, GTX 970 3584 MB VRAM
 
SalvoDate: Monday, 24.12.2012, 20:55 | Message # 146
Star Engineer
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(SpaceEngineer)
Это глобальный список TODO, в основном касается графической части движка. То, что помечено:
Зелёный , - Приоритетно и будет выполнено/Уже выполнено.
Жёлтый , - Частично реализовано.
Красный , - Запланировано к следующему релизу.
Серый , - Вызывает сомнения, то есть не ясно, будет ли это, или это вообще возможно.

Why not here? biggrin





The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition.

CPU: Intel Core i7 4770 GPU: ASUS Radeon R9 270 RAM: 8 GBs

(still don't know why everyone is doing this...)
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Monday, 24.12.2012, 21:20 | Message # 147
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(Salvo)
Why not here?

As he also stated later in that thread, using these colors make little sense and is not useful since what is planned and what actually gets implemented are rarely the same. He will not be adding color-coding here, and more likely will remove it from the Russian forum. And as he also stated in this thread very recently, he will probably create a separate thread describing things already implemented, leaving this thread only with what is left to be done in the future.





All forum users, please read this!
My SE mods and addons
Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, GTX 970 3584 MB VRAM
 
TimDate: Sunday, 30.12.2012, 18:03 | Message # 148
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About the minerals, will it be basic like in most games, like just fuel, ore, etc. or will it be more complex, like iron, diamond, oil from planets with life, etc?
 
SYRSADate: Sunday, 06.01.2013, 07:41 | Message # 149
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There is a thing I'm wondering about. Is it going to be hard to do a "Correct dynamic lens flare effect"? Because is it going to be embedded deep in the graphics engine? And how far fetched is this feature, or will we be seeing it soon?

Despite the already brilliant, overall look of all the other visuals, it is quite distracting to see lens flares clipping through hills (slider on simple). Or seeing them kick in when the absolute center of the star is over a hilltop (slider on normal).

I'm not laying any pressure here, just speculating.
 
Ignuus66Date: Saturday, 12.01.2013, 13:21 | Message # 150
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Have the program generate the atmospheric composition and base the color on that, this would add an interesting variable to finding habitable planets: by being able to see, and not just assume, the composition of the atmosphere. Hope I'm not asking for the impossible though.

Edited by Ignuus66 - Saturday, 12.01.2013, 13:21
 
Forum » SpaceEngine » Development Status » SpaceEngine TODO List - Updated 14th Dec 2015 (What's planned for future releases)
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