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Forum » SpaceEngine » Gameplay Discussions » Spaceflight Physics Concept (A Concept Prototype)
Spaceflight Physics Concept
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Tuesday, 08.07.2014, 08:26 | Message # 31
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I noticed on the Russian forum the counterpart thread has some pretty interestng discussions, but this thread is a bit dead. Since the hyperdrive is being reworked a bit towards an Alcubierre(/White) style drive perhaps we can get a new discussion going on the FTL physics.

Some useful information
The warp drive: hyper-fast travel within general relativity
Warp Field Mechanics 101
Warp Field Mechanics 102: Energy Optimization

In regards to making a gameplay mechanic from this while sticking to "realism" of the current theory I have some ideas on what could be done.

The thin rings used in the original Alcubierre drive would require a large input of energy to function


Perhaps some sort of mechanism could be used to allow for thin rings(or other shapes). Possibly using something like the original hyperdrive concept as an external ZPM/vacuum energy/negative pressure generator that would work in conjunction with the thin rings to generate a possibly larger more stable field.

Some layout similar to this


For every thin ring you would have an internal generator that would work with the thin ring to generate a sort of "virtual" thick ring.

Another aspect of space bending rings is they all generate a specific size field.

What one needs to realize is each ring is affecting space and the flat region is within the ring and just outside of it.


The reason the two rings on the NASA concept ship are so close is so the field acts as a single unit and is stable.


If you have parts of the ship sticking too far out or the rings too widely placed the field will not be symmetric and the ship will be destroyed.

To allow for longer ships one would need to use more rings around the ship at certain points or perhaps use some sort of new mechanic that when placed along the ship would stabilize the field.

C = contraction region and E = expansion





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schwarzwolfDate: Wednesday, 16.07.2014, 17:29 | Message # 32
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This are actually very nice information. Wasn't to happy with the hyperdrive concept. An Alcubierre drive could be intresting for it. Possible aswell, that such a engine should have some kind of fuel dark matter/antimatter. Beeing able to jump infinitely, but having only finite fuel sounds a bit strange.

Some smaller (about 100 meter) long warpships with lower max range and speed would be nice aswell. So lets see what they came up with from the russian forum.

Btw. Personally like the look of the NASA ship.
 
SHWDate: Sunday, 10.08.2014, 19:03 | Message # 33
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I think, that ring shaped drive is too boring, and we could use alternative shapes like squeezed rings, n-gons, half rings and squeezed half-rings to make ships more unique:


Attachments: 4822347.jpg(95Kb)





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HarbingerDawnDate: Sunday, 10.08.2014, 19:50 | Message # 34
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I like the squeezed half ring on the bottom-right.




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SHWDate: Monday, 11.08.2014, 20:47 | Message # 35
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One more option - foldable ring:





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HarbingerDawnDate: Monday, 11.08.2014, 21:25 | Message # 36
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I can't wait for SE to support animations biggrin




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DoctorOfSpaceDate: Monday, 11.08.2014, 21:31 | Message # 37
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Quote SHW ()
One more option - foldable ring:


I think this is the best one by far.





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WatsisnameDate: Monday, 11.08.2014, 22:51 | Message # 38
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Agreed, that is super cool.




 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Monday, 18.08.2014, 23:00 | Message # 39
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No mans Sky has a similar ring design for their larger ships



I don't know what they are doing with their ships for FTL propulsion though.





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werdnaforeverDate: Tuesday, 19.08.2014, 05:27 | Message # 40
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Quote SHW ()
One more option - foldable ring:

Awesome! Foldable designs can be used in many other places too.
 
schwarzwolfDate: Saturday, 23.08.2014, 16:41 | Message # 41
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The foldable ring is epic. Would work nice with ships, who have a full body shield (massive hull).
The ship has already shown, but even when the ring is wrong, it could be a nice example how a ship with a massive hull can look. A foldable ring could be withdrawn in the hull then. (Already known pic from another thread, put into a spoiler.)


Hope we can build a complete armor around the ship, even when it makes the ship very heavy and will need way more fuel/power and would have a way slower acceleration by same engine output. But it would make the ship way more robust.

To the Alcubierre rings.

I think both rings could have drawbacks and benefits.

foldable ring:
+ can be folded into the hull, so its completly protected from the ship hull
+ wouldn't block the rest of the ship when folded
- lower efficiency and output as a solid ring
- not as robust as the solid ring when unfolded
- more delicate

So when i am actually by ideas, i think i could write some additional ones i got lately (Put them into another spoiler, because its a bit longer list, who shouldn't make the post to long):


Edited by schwarzwolf - Saturday, 23.08.2014, 16:52
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Saturday, 23.08.2014, 20:58 | Message # 42
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Quote schwarzwolf ()

To the Alcubierre rings.

I think both rings could have drawbacks and benefits.

foldable ring:
+ can be folded into the hull, so its completly protected from the ship hull
+ wouldn't block the rest of the ship when folded
- lower efficiency and output as a solid ring
- not as robust as the solid ring when unfolded
- more delicate




Quote schwarzwolf ()
Only the antimatter reactors are able to provide immediately. antimatter reactors would aswell give the hightest speed. Other reactors would need some high power condensators, who have to be charged before they can power up a alcubierre drive




TL;DR: Antimatter isn't worth it due to how hard it is to get.

Quote schwarzwolf ()
Wormhole (The idea i had in mind would be to use some massive gravity mass to get this engine running. Possible a sun for interstellar travel, or a black hole (=D) for intergalatic travel. This has to be tweaked, because it could be a problem, when a ship strands in deep space. Possible would be, that very high advanced ships could aswell travel between galaxies with alcubierre drives and that the player can call for help, if he strands. So it would be more a way for faster traveling)








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SpaceEngineerDate: Saturday, 23.08.2014, 21:10 | Message # 43
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Quote schwarzwolf ()
Atmospheric Engines:

Metallic hydrogen phase transition engine.

Quote schwarzwolf ()
fusion reactors

Actually they will be combined with engines (btw you are forgot about nuclear and fusion engines). Currently SHW ship editor uses fusion engines.

Quote schwarzwolf ()
And the quantum vakuum thrusters

This look like some pseudoscience thing.

Quote schwarzwolf ()
For dampers, i would suggest:

Diamagnetic dumping.





 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Saturday, 23.08.2014, 21:21 | Message # 44
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Quote SpaceEngineer ()
This look like some pseudoscience thing.


The fact that there is some experimental evidence to support the idea kind of takes it out of the realm of pseudoscience. They have a long way to go before being proven but there is some compelling evidence.

Whether or not they'll be efficient when scaled up, provide enough thrust for large spacecraft, or even be practical remains to be seen and that's if they even work.





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HarbingerDawnDate: Saturday, 23.08.2014, 22:08 | Message # 45
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Quote SpaceEngineer ()
This look like some pseudoscience thing.

Currently in research and development. It's too soon to know whether it will actually work as practical technology, but early experimental results are promising.





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